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Thread: The 454 Snyd- Adventures with a 454 Redhawk and Levergun

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    Default The 454 Snyd- Adventures with a 454 Redhawk and Levergun

    So the goal is to be able to work up a load using these 355gr hammers for the 454 Redhawk and 454 Puma Levergun. No prob with OAL in the Redhawk but they need to cycle with 100% reliability in the Levergun.



    Loaded in full length 454 brass they won't cycle with this big metplat. In 45 Colt brass no prob. But, I'd like to be able to push these at 454 levels in the Puma. My 45 Colt load is 21.5gr H110 and is a max load and is accurate and about 1200fps in my SBH. I could stuff more powder in the case but don't feel comfortable doing that and the SBH doesn't need it. I also don't want to take the chance of mixing up ammo and shooting an over max/high pressure load in my SBH. So, I decided I'd trim 454 brass down, seat and crimp some dummy rounds to where they'd cycle in the levergun and see if I could have more case capacity than the 45 Colt brass. I ended up at 1.330 and they cycle like butter, thus, the 454 Snyd is born (at least in my world). 45 Colt brass is 1.285, 454 is 1.385 so I ended up in the middle The 454 Snyd is about half way between the 45 Colt and 454 Casull. Plus, since it's headstamped 454 that should help keep from accidentally stuffing them into my 45 Colt SBH.

    I had in the past loaded a 360gr Cast Performance boolit in 454 brass trimmed to 1.365. That bullet seats deeper in the case than the 355gr Hammer. I don't have one to measure but I do have this old pic and you can see the difference.



    I bet it's close to .050 or more shorter. My observation/conclusion is that the 355gr in the 1.330 454 Snyd case has the same case capacity (or more) than the 360gr CP boolit seated in 1.365 454 brass. I used the 454 360gr load data as a starting point and worked my way up to 26gr H110, I did shoot 27gr in the levergun a while back no prob but haven't in the Redhawk yet. Here are my preliminary results. I've got room for more powder and have no pressure signs in either gun. Easy extraction, primers look good. I may work it up some more. Anyway, I think I'm getting there.

    1685 fps avg 6 rnds. 25 yds resting only the forestock on a bag. I think the gun can shoot these a little mo-betta.



    Here's the same load in the Redhawk. 1275fps, 47 yds. I ranged it.


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    Default And then the heavies.....

    I also worked up this 422 gr load. Cycles like butter in the Puma but jumps crimp enough to jam up in the Redhawk after 4 rnds. I'm still working on this. It shoots really good in both guns. I'm using a Lee Factory Crimp Die but I think I'll try a Redding Profile Crimp Die and see what happens. This RCBS boolit doesn't have a tapered crimp groove. I may have to try a different 400gr boolit. We'll see.

    I can go up with this load as well but gotta solve the crimp jump in the Redhawk. Not an issue in the levergun. I checked each round as I shot the tube full and down to the last one they stayed put.

    1072 fps in the Redhawk, 1442 in the Levergun. 47yds both guns, I had the Puma on a rest this time. It's looking pretty good so far. If I can just keep the boolits in the brass in the Redhawk I'll be good to go.



    Typo on the target. It's 422gr and 47yds....


    Here's a pic of the Happy Couple


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    Default SRH=?

    You refer to the "SRH" several times in the first post - do you mean your Redhawk or am I missing something?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Oops- you said "SBH" - not "SRH" - I'm still confused.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Snyd I absolutely love what you've done with that Redhawk.

    Definitely Minute-of-moose heart with that load and your shooting.
    Now what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Oops- you said "SBH" - not "SRH" - I'm still confused.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    ........................................ I'm using a Lee Factory Crimp Die but I think I'll try a Redding Profile Crimp Die and see what happens. This RCBS boolit doesn't have a tapered crimp groove. I may have to try a different 400gr boolit. We'll see.

    I can go up with this load as well but gotta solve the crimp jump in the Redhawk........................................... ..
    My experience with my 4" 454 SRH and crimp jump.
    I have been loading BTB 340, 345, 355gr. Lead, gas checked bullets.
    I couldn't keep the 345's from jumping crimp. The best results I could get was by first slightly flaring the case mouth, just enough to take the old crimp out. Then I would size the case. I didn't run it thru the expander die.
    This gave me (on my dies) .002 more press on the bullets. I had to be careful when seating the bullet.
    It helped but only good for 5 rounds, then crimp jump.
    The 340's wouldn't jump crimp (12 rounds) with this method.
    I then ordered the 355's, they had a longer base on the bullet. That made the difference.
    I can keep the 355's in place for 12 rounds @ about 1300fps using H4227+fed 205m primers.
    The bullets specs: 340gr, .865 OAL, .400 nose to crimp, .465 in the brass.
    345gr, .860 OAL, .450 nose to crimp, .410 in the brass.
    355gr, .885 OAL, .400 nose to crimp, .485 in the brass.
    I used Redding Profile crimp die, Lee factory crimp die, and RCBS crimp die. I can keep the 355's from jumping crimp with any one of the three crimp dies.
    I prefer the Redding crimp die over the others. I use a pretty heavy crimp, and had to play with my bullet seating depth to get the crimp tight against the bottom of the crimp groove. The heavy crimp seems to shorten brass life.
    The case mouth will start to crack. I then trim my brass back a bit. Trimming the brass to a uniform length seems to help keep a consistent crimp.
    I use Starline brass, both .454 and shortened .460 brass.
    Good luck on your reloading, and nice looking Redhawk.
    "The older I get, the better I was."

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    I don't recall seeing that one before - all the recent pictures have been of the Redhawk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I don't recall seeing that one before - all the recent pictures have been of the Redhawk.
    It's one of 279 (plus a few recent cleanup guns) 45 Colt SBH Bisley Hunters. Linebaugh will convert it to a 454 but I'll keep mine the way it is. maybe someday I'll spring for .475 Linebaugh convversion or a FA. Although, with the 1/16 twist of the Ruger 45 Colt barrel it would be one heck of a shooter with heavy boolits. He must figure the barrels are strong enough.

    http://www.customsixguns.com/sixguns.htm


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    mmmmmmmm I like butter too.... especially on pancakes mmmmm yummy... What is the point of this your comment cycles like butter makes no sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    mmmmmmmm I like butter too.... especially on pancakes mmmmm yummy... What is the point of this your comment cycles like butter makes no sense...
    The loads feed/cycle through the levergun action nice and smooooooth...... just like butter........ fast or slow with 10 in the tube down to the last one.

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    Default .45 Bisley Hunter

    Does the Bisley have the same sloppy chambers all the Redhawk shooters keep commenting on? If not it would be a neat gun as is or use it as you do a .45 P++.

    My first .44 Mag was a SBH I got around 67.. They were a lot cheaper than the S&Ws back then. I shot the heck outta it and then traded it off for something- probably money to finish college. I then picked up a Flattop for $75 in '69 and kept it until I got my first M29 around '73.

    Barrels in the Blackhawks and SBHs are made from rolled stock -not cast - so they should be stronger. Do the Hunters have a added rib for the scope mounting or are they a one piece casting?


    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    It's one of 279 (plus a few recent cleanup guns) 45 Colt SBH Bisley Hunters. Linebaugh will convert it to a 454 but I'll keep mine the way it is. maybe someday I'll spring for .475 Linebaugh convversion or a FA. Although, with the 1/16 twist of the Ruger 45 Colt barrel it would be one heck of a shooter with heavy boolits. He must figure the barrels are strong enough.

    http://www.customsixguns.com/sixguns.htm

    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Does the Bisley have the same sloppy chambers all the Redhawk shooters keep commenting on? If not it would be a neat gun as is or use it as you do a .45 P++.

    My first .44 Mag was a SBH I got around 67.. They were a lot cheaper than the S&Ws back then. I shot the heck outta it and then traded it off for something- probably money to finish college. I then picked up a Flattop for $75 in '69 and kept it until I got my first M29 around '73.

    Barrels in the Blackhawks and SBHs are made from rolled stock -not cast - so they should be stronger. Do the Hunters have a added rib for the scope mounting or are they a one piece casting?
    Ya, this one's so bad it will only shoot 1.5 inch 6rnd groups at 50 yds. Even after about 800 rounds, that's the best it will do. And with a lightweight 355gr wfn at 1200 fps or even those 255ers at 900. Hodgon says it's a "Ruger Only" load but you and I know better. If a guy is going to hotrod the 45 Colt it's only safe in the 460, the best gun ever made and really the ONLY one worth buying, well, that and the ol' Smith mtn gun, like the one Dick Casull used to develop the 454 Casull. That is what he used right? Because the XVR had'nt come out yet?

    I suspect the raised rib is an afterthought and is there for looks only and the next time I shoot it the barrel will fall off just like all the Redhawks. Or the scope rings will bust out of it. But, it sure looks cool... and the name..... SUPER Blackhawk HUNTER. I just keep it around to take pictures of it and shoot holes in paper, especially since I've heard so much about the 460. It's not like I could kill a bear or moose with it, I'd be afraid to even try. That 355er needs at least 15-1600 fps to be effective. How else will that hard cast boolit be able to expand and transfer all it's energy into the critter?? As we all know, if the boolit goes all the way through it's just wasted energy. I read on the internet just the other day that hard cast boolits just go right through and the critter runs off. Well, unless it's a 460 I suppose. Besides, I'd need at least a 460 to make that 200yd shot. Why take the risk of getting within 50yds with a pistol? That's just askin for trouble.

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    All the comments about loose chambers were from Ruger shooters like yourself- I don't claim to be knowledgeable of them.

    The scope mounting system in the top rib is a neat idea and gives an excellent scope mounting platform - I wish S&W would do the same. I was only curious if the barrel was a one piece casting or roll stock with a rib added - a roll stock barrel would get the option to use a better quality steel like Rugers uses on the .454. It would give more options if one wanted to build a .454 or other caliber on the platform.

    And the question I keep asking: why does Ruger only offer the .454 in the SRH? Judging from this platfome there is certainly a big demand for a RH or SBH in that caliber. Heck - I'd buy one myself if they were affordable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Ya, this one's so bad it will only shoot 1.5 inch 6rnd groups at 50 yds. Even after about 800 rounds, that's the best it will do. And with a lightweight 355gr wfn at 1200 fps or even those 255ers at 900. Hodgon says it's a "Ruger Only" load but you and I know better. If a guy is going to hotrod the 45 Colt it's only safe in the 460, the best gun ever made and really the ONLY one worth buying, well, that and the ol' Smith mtn gun, like the one Dick Casull used to develop the 454 Casull. That is what he used right? Because the XVR had'nt come out yet?

    I suspect the raised rib is an afterthought and is there for looks only and the next time I shoot it the barrel will fall off just like all the Redhawks. Or the scope rings will bust out of it. But, it sure looks cool... and the name..... SUPER Blackhawk HUNTER. I just keep it around to take pictures of it and shoot holes in paper, especially since I've heard so much about the 460. It's not like I could kill a bear or moose with it, I'd be afraid to even try. That 355er needs at least 15-1600 fps to be effective. How else will that hard cast boolit be able to expand and transfer all it's energy into the critter?? As we all know, if the boolit goes all the way through it's just wasted energy. I read on the internet just the other day that hard cast boolits just go right through and the critter runs off. Well, unless it's a 460 I suppose. Besides, I'd need at least a 460 to make that 200yd shot. Why take the risk of getting within 50yds with a pistol? That's just askin for trouble.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Good god Fin, Not this thread too! You have no decency at all.
    Can we please have this thread, you can hijack every single other thread if you want.
    "When the time comes for a man to look his Maker in the eye, where better could the meeting be held than in the wilderness?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by travelers View Post
    My experience with my 4" 454 SRH and crimp jump.
    I have been loading BTB 340, 345, 355gr. Lead, gas checked bullets.
    I couldn't keep the 345's from jumping crimp. The best results I could get was by first slightly flaring the case mouth, just enough to take the old crimp out. Then I would size the case. I didn't run it thru the expander die.
    This gave me (on my dies) .002 more press on the bullets. I had to be careful when seating the bullet.
    It helped but only good for 5 rounds, then crimp jump.
    The 340's wouldn't jump crimp (12 rounds) with this method.
    I then ordered the 355's, they had a longer base on the bullet. That made the difference.
    I can keep the 355's in place for 12 rounds @ about 1300fps using H4227+fed 205m primers.
    The bullets specs: 340gr, .865 OAL, .400 nose to crimp, .465 in the brass.
    345gr, .860 OAL, .450 nose to crimp, .410 in the brass.
    355gr, .885 OAL, .400 nose to crimp, .485 in the brass.
    I used Redding Profile crimp die, Lee factory crimp die, and RCBS crimp die. I can keep the 355's from jumping crimp with any one of the three crimp dies.
    I prefer the Redding crimp die over the others. I use a pretty heavy crimp, and had to play with my bullet seating depth to get the crimp tight against the bottom of the crimp groove. The heavy crimp seems to shorten brass life.
    The case mouth will start to crack. I then trim my brass back a bit. Trimming the brass to a uniform length seems to help keep a consistent crimp.
    I use Starline brass, both .454 and shortened .460 brass.
    Good luck on your reloading, and nice looking Redhawk.
    Thanks for the pointers.

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    The Lee 45/454 FCD is not the true cullet type die like you get in a rifle caliber, take it apart and there is just a solid ring in there that rolls the crimp. But if you order a Lee custom FCD ($30/35) off your 454 case itís a true cullet die and will crimp as hard as you want, cut right into solid copper like the rifle FC dies. Take a gander here down the page a bit http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Custom-Services.html

    Next best is the Redding profile crimp and thatís what I am using with mixed luck like travelers till I break down and take the time to order a Lee custom FCD.
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    Default Hijacked

    I only ask about the barrel construction of the Hunter - no intent to hijack. I was thinking it may be a good bet for a .454 - perhaps better than the RH .454 I'd like but Ruger doesn't make. Sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by tailwind View Post
    Good god Fin, Not this thread too! You have no decency at all.
    Can we please have this thread, you can hijack every single other thread if you want.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I only ask about the barrel construction of the Hunter...
    I think most would say they are well constructed.



    Ruger Bisley Hunter
    Ruger Bisley Hunter fitted with five shot .45-.454 Casull cylinder.
    "When the time comes for a man to look his Maker in the eye, where better could the meeting be held than in the wilderness?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    The Lee 45/454 FCD is not the true cullet type die like you get in a rifle caliber, take it apart and there is just a solid ring in there that rolls the crimp. But if you order a Lee custom FCD ($30/35) off your 454 case itís a true cullet die and will crimp as hard as you want, cut right into solid copper like the rifle FC dies. Take a gander here down the page a bit http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Custom-Services.html

    Next best is the Redding profile crimp and thatís what I am using with mixed luck like travelers till I break down and take the time to order a Lee custom FCD.
    Thanks for the tip about the Lee custom FCD. I'll order one and give it a try.
    "The older I get, the better I was."

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