If you were gunna.....
I have a 17' Grumman sq back and a variety of motors to put on the back, a 16' Penobscot and 5 others.
My issue now is my wife is interested in canoes and she is not "canoe friendly"...meaning she tends to fall out of the canoe when boarding and getting out. So far, she has been a good sport about it even thought it must be embarrassing to her. Choices...get a new wife who is a "canoe person" or perhaps find a very stable canoe that she will be comfortable riding in. She likes canoeing once she gets settled in the seat. Considering that I have 27 years invested in this wife and she owns half of my worldly goods and I like her a lot, I convinced myself to look for a more stable canoe.
The two choices I came up with are the Esquif Cargo (17' x 44") made of 3 ply royalex and the Osagian Missourian (17' x 44") made of 0.050" aluminum. Both seem to be fine canoes and the Missourian has side sponsons to add to secondary stability. There is an Esquif dealer 80 miles from me who will take in some of my other canoes on trade and the nearest dealer for the Missourian is 700 miles so that means shipping if I go that route and selling my canoes on-line.
1. If anyone has any experiance with these canoes, please comment on the primary and secondary stability of these two boats and how you like them in general.
2. I will replace the Grumman 17' with which ever I buy so the durability of the canoe is also in question. I lean towards the aluminum boat. Which one is best for river/stream and lake travels, deer and elk hunts and fly fishing in ID, MT, WY, OR and WA? I will also keep my 12' Ultimate for small places and solo trips.
3. I have a 3.3 Merc, some 5 hp Johnson/Evinrudes, a 6 hp Evinrude and a 15 hp Evinrude....all 2 strokes. I plan to sell off these motors (except the 3.3 Merc) and get one 4 stroke in the 6 - 8 hp range. Which engine would you choose for the canoe of your choice?
Thanks in advance!!
So...apparently no one has heard of these canoes so I've chosen the Missourian to replace the Grumman. Looks like a great boat and after talking to Jared at Osagian today he is going to drop it off at my door for a nominal fee. I also talked to the Esquif dealer as well and I just felt more comfortable with the aluminum canoe. So there you have it...looks like my old 7.5 hp sears motor gets the first chance to push the new boat and after a clean up the Johnson 6 hp will get a chance. Can't wait for next week when Osagian drops off my new canoe.
Don't get ur panties in too much of a bunch, I've looked them both over, they are both very nice. I chose the royalex esquif because of the shallow rivers I run. type in the canoe on the search engine.....there is a TON of advice.
Originally Posted by Lowrider
It does feel a little tight.
I did the search before I posted and hoped for more current info specifically focused on the stability issues, otherwise the Grumman is a fine boat and serves me well. The Missourian seems to fit my needs better while keeping my wife in the boat. Thanks for the sanity check.
I recently went through the same decision and came to the opposite conclusion. The workmanship on the Osagian was horrible. The bottom was flat(just like your grumman) but is a few inches wider....good initial stability but poor secondary....I do know people who like the Osagian....I'm just not one of them...I'm buying the Esquif Cargo ( already put money down for a May delivery).....
.050 is awful thin for me to be comfortable loading a moose and camp and dragging over riffles. I'd be sure to carry a can of MAPP gas and some aluminum brazing rods.
the grumman you have has a "T" keel, made out of 1 inch high strip down the center of the canoe an it help to be stable the canoe more than you think it helps, look for a 19 FT. grumman or go for the larger 20 + ft canoes
Mainer likes a roundy bottom though
Think flat bottom Scott. Stable as the day is long.
Now we're geting some where!
I thought long and hard about the Albany but I want to haul the canoe on my roof rack on my truck and it is just too heavy for that mode. That's how I got to the Missourian and Esquif Cargo. I'm sorry to hear about poor workmanship on the Osagians, but that is what I'm looking for to help with a decision. I have not seen either in person so that is why I'm going to rely on the personal experience of you folks.
The Cargo does look like a better boat but I was really looking for a more stable canoe and it seemed like the slick bottom on the esquif was not going to give me that solid feeling. I haven't been dumped out of a canoe in many years but my wife has not been so fortunate. Looks like I need to get off the web and go look and feel these boats before I make a decision.
Thanks for the comments!!
I have a 17' Missourian. The workmanship looks fine. Yes - you can car top it but it requies two people to load and unload. Its a big canoe on top of car or full size truck. I made a utility trailer 5'x12' with a 6' tongue and put on removeable rubber rollers to tote the canoe around. This gives me extra room for gas, kicker, etc...
The osagian I looked at is on the rack at Sportsman warehouse....I would not buy it. I have done a fair amount of aluminum work over the years (aircraft), bending/forming, riveting and TIG welding....I do have an eye for what is acceptable standards in aluminum work for both strength and aesthetics....that boat does not meet my standards.....
The Esquif is an unknown quantity to me...I do have a canoe that has similar lines, but is a double ender...the Esquif looks like it will be very stable...I will be in rivers quite often, so I do not want a flat bottom/keel type boat....I need maneuverability....To each his own, my two cents worth.....
Originally Posted by pipercub
The flat bottom doesn't matter about manageability with a motor, but if your motor went down and you had to paddle......not so good. I'll have to reinforce the transom of my esquif cargo for the copperhead 12 motor I have, but will also be paddling the canoe with the motor slightly lifted too, and I agree......the esquif is one heck of a versatile canoe.
Well, the Missourian is on hold and I'm off tomorrow to look at an Esquif Cargo which I guess is the way I'm leaning now. A friend of mine reminded me of being dumped when his Grumman got stuck on a rock and he went sideways. I guess that thought is turning me back to the smooth bottom Cargo.
I'm not an A&P but have built an RV-4 and done lots of work on Cessnas when I was flying in Homer and I would hate to get an aluminum boat that had poor workmanship in it that I had to look at everytime I went out in it....just a thought.
Yeah, a friend lost a Grumman 19 by wrapping it around a boulder after catching a keel.....I would have to disagree about how manuverable some boats are under power....some hulls can be leaned a bit to initiate a turn....some are like trying to steer a barge upriver....I know a guy who has spent two summers on big Alaskan rivers driving an Osagian, with a 15hp Honda and has been pleased with its performance......So I'm not trying to bash them here....For all I know, Sportsman's may buy factory 2nds and sell them as first quality.....who knows......anyway right or wrong, I'm going with the Esquif Cargo....And in the for what it's worth department, you should always be prepared to paddle any river that you are motoring up.....IMHO
a lot of people have put there 2 CTS. there is a lot of good an some bad ,info there , Like the 19 that got folded an that will happen no mater what canoe you have, the 20 + ft canoes are great on large water but it will kill you on small water draft , an heavy, a lot heaver than the 19 grumman you can carry it not far but some, [have dun it] an you cab drag it without to much effot, there is no single canoe that can do it, if there was we would all have one, in stead of the ones we do have , as I am a a 19 ft grumman man, it is one of the best on the water, the only problem is it is not a large water canoe [waves]
I picked up the Esquif Cargo this morning.
The "resident expert" at the shop says it is a lot more boat than than the Missourian but they did not have a Missourinan to sell so I must wonder if that would have been the case if they were side by side. He made a few comments about the Osagian quality, mostly good, but he kinda hung his hat on the fact that the Canadians beat the hell out of the Cargo's and always seem to be happy with them.
We discussed the motor size on the Cargo and he kept telling me it is rated for 3.5 hp and smiled. I asked if the 9.9 hp or 15 hp would be too much and he was very hesitant to say anything. After I looked at the boat some when I got it home, it does not look very stiff and with a good load I would bet a 7.5 hp would be all you would want. I have a 5 hp and a Merc 3.3 hp which I will try first without a load as soon as I can get it on the water.
Anyway, the decision is behind me and we'll see how I like the Cargo. It is pretty wide and should be stable....we'll see how my wife does.
the transom will take a 9.8 Tohatsu I can assure you that. Anything below a 6hp will seem quite sluggish with any sort of weight in the boat. The tohatsu/nissan two stroke 9.9 would be an excellent motor for that canoe too. I'm going to do some reinforcements to my transom before hanging my surface drive mud motor off the stern.
Good to know about the Tohatsu!
Are you beefing the transom due to the weight of the mud motor or the high mount placing leverage on the plastic?
I was thinking about adding a piece of 0.125" aluminum on the inside and outside of the transom just to give the back some rigidity that the plastic does not seem to provide. Not sure if it is necessary but the transom does look a little flimsy. Also, the plywood board with the multiple holes used as a lift would also be simple and handy.
I'm going to hang an 8hp Johnson 2 stroke (56lbs) on the Esquif (when it arrives) and see how it does... You can put extra thwarts on the Esquif to stiffen it up a bit....Don't forget the old trick(for your wife) of putting a paddle across both gunwales and pushing down to steady the boat as you get in....
My 79 Johnson 6 hp is about the same weight. I was just looking at Tohatsu 9.8 hp 4 stroke at 81 lbs./ That seems like a good deal for the 4 stroke weight wise. I'll be interested in how your 8 hp pushes a load.
I was just looking at the second seat back and thought an extra thwart behind the seat would add to the stiffness and also would be good for tie downs. Might take the seat out and open up the floor some. Another behind the rear seat would definitely make a difference.
My wife's problem has been getting into the boat from a dock or from a larger boat. She seems to do OK off shore and she has used the paddle to steady things while getting into the seat but thanks for the thought.