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Thread: Another Bison ESA Issue

  1. #1
    Member Jeff Shannon's Avatar
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    Default Another Bison ESA Issue

    As if the problems with wood bison and the ESA weren't enough, now there's this...

    http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...cc4c03286.html

    If this lawsuit is successful then your snowflake's chance in hell of ever getting that Delta tag will go completely down the drain. Alaska's wild bison herds are considered genetically pure plains bison that came from the National Bison Range in Moiese, Montana. It's high time that the ESA was gutted like a fish to put an end to this garbage.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Well said. If the ESA isn't abolished it needs an extreme facelift. The AK Standard's Alex Girmac (sp?) wrote a great article about gutting the ESA and cloning endangered species since they're into all that genetic mutation stuff. His article came out about the time there was talk about cloning mammoths or some crap.

    Tim

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    Member Jeff Shannon's Avatar
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    Hopefully this lawsuit will flop, but it just goes to show that these "environmental" groups don't really care about "endangered" species. Sure you can play the numbers and say bison numbers are down 99% from 200 hundred years ago, but their numbers are also up about 8,000 fold from what they were 100 years ago. It's all about land-grabbing control and destroying the rural American way of life to try and recreate the past.

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    Default from the sewers (oops I mean sue-er's) web site

    "The Center for Biological Diversity works through science, law and creative media to secure a future for all species, great or small, hovering on the brink of extinction."
    How the heck can they make a case that bison are hovering on the brink of extinction, when in fact they're rebounding extraordinarily well since the "old wild west" practices nearly did make'm hover for awhile.

    There have been some really fine people take action over the past 100 years to improve their (the bison's) lot in life. As hard as life was 100 years ago, can you imagine what it took to take time out of your day to provide for your progeny's future to have bison in it? Those are some rough'n'tough people for sure, that did well.

    These sewers.... not so much.


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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Well, bad timing for sure, and a ridiculous lawsuit imo. USFWS already did the 90-day finding and could find no rationale to list plains bison as threatened. So I can't see any way this suit would be successful.
    http://www.yankton.net/articles/2011...8960608281.txt

    Jeff et al, not sure if you saw Mike Miller's op-ed on the wood bison issue in the ADN:
    http://www.adn.com/2011/04/13/180881...s-diverse.html

    He runs the conservation center that houses the wood bison right now and very much supports their release into the wilds.

  6. #6
    Member Jeff Shannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Well, bad timing for sure, and a ridiculous lawsuit imo. USFWS already did the 90-day finding and could find no rationale to list plains bison as threatened. So I can't see any way this suit would be successful.
    http://www.yankton.net/articles/2011...8960608281.txt

    Jeff et al, not sure if you saw Mike Miller's op-ed on the wood bison issue in the ADN:
    http://www.adn.com/2011/04/13/180881...s-diverse.html

    He runs the conservation center that houses the wood bison right now and very much supports their release into the wilds.
    Thanks for the links Mark. While the petition failed, all it takes is an activist judge who sees fit to force FWS to change its management objectives and you end up with a wildlife management nightmare. The repetitive rulings of Judge Donald Molloy in Montana regarding both wolves and grizzly bears show just how easily that can be accomplished, and how it can go completely contrary to all common sense. The wolf ESA train wreck down there finally ended last week, but it took Congressional action to accomplish it.

    While I respect Mr. Miller's views and his hard work in bringing wood bison back to Alaska, I don't share his rosey outlook on their return so long as there are any federal protections tied to them...10j or not. I'm not arguing the merits of the animals themselves. I think they would be an incredible asset to Alaska and I do hope that they can be returned to the Yukon Flats where they could really thrive, but I've seen 10j non-essential experimental populations manipulated beyond belief, and that's turned me into a real skeptic. If every litigative "environmental" group out there signed an MOA that they wouldn't file suit I'd probably change my mind...but we all know that will never happen. Honestly, I think keeping the wood bison imprisoned at AWCC sets a precedent that the ESA can be completely contradictary to its intended goal of protecting species. The ESA in and of itself is the only thing getting in the way of the return of the wood bison.

    Back to the plains bison issue, the implications of an ESA listing for them could go well beyond ending bison hunting in Delta, Chitina, and Farewell. If a species like the plains bison, which has vastly increased in numbers in recent times, can be listed based primarily on it's population in relation to pre-settlement times, then many other species could follow suit. Elk, pronghorn antelope, and bighorn sheep could all be ESA listed because they all have populations that are just a small fraction of their historic presence, irregardless of the fact that they're all widespread and thriving. It might seem like a stretch, but "Distinct Population Segments" within Alaska could also be considered on that basis. Take the 40-mile caribou herd for instance. While it's doing well and has been steadily increasing it likely represents less than 10% of its historic population. The Mulchatna herd could be another prime example. I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here, but the implications are terrifying. The point that needs to be taken home is that the ESA has gone completely off track and needs some major revisions.

    Off the soap box now.

    Cheers,

    Jeff

    Here's an interesting link I found about DPS's and Experimental Populations:
    http://ncseonline.org/NLE/CRSreports/08Feb/RL34238.pdf

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Good points, JS. Plus, with a listing of plains bison, the new rage is habitat protection which would have implications in the three areas you mentioned. Sometimes the enviro groups are their own worse enemies.

    Tim

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