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Thread: Injured while hunting?

  1. #1
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default Injured while hunting?

    Was reading Jimmy Urban's great "liability" thread and got to wondering....how many here on AOD have been injured in the field while hunting in Alaska?
    Care to share what happened to you or yours and the extent of the injury?
    Maybe we can help others to avoid a similar fate.

    We've been very fortunate and have never been seriously hurt in our many miles of hunting and hiking over the years...



    Frank

  2. #2
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
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    Talking Goat Hunt

    Last season coming down a steep rocky slide when the rocks broke loose and I did a few 360's down the hill for 50-60 feet, would still be going if my partner hadn't grabbed me around the head and neck as I went by. Only a few bumps and bruises.

    How would I avoided this? Don't go up and you won't have to go down. lol

  3. #3

    Default Falling

    A few years back was packing out from a successful sheep hunt. The previous year I had promised myself I would not try to bring everything out in one trip, 140-170lbs getting to be too much. Well I broke my promise to myself, seemed to be a fairly easy pack back to the strip and figured I was still tough enough. I was almost to the bottom, lost my footing and pitched forward. At first I thought I had broke my arm. I called the transporter, told him I thought I could make the strip. I made it about 400 yds and the pain was intense. Called the transporter back and told him I couldn't make it. He called the "Dust Off" team from Wainright. The Blackhawk showed up about 4 hours later. Pain was intense, couldn't lay down, couldn't sit, could only maintain on my hands and knees and then just barely. Had given the GPS coordinates but still watched them fly up the wrong valley before they found me. Pain was getting worse. They finally found me and wanted me to climb in the basket, told them I couldn't lay down so they set on the ground. They loaded me in Blackhawk and left my partner to pack both sheep to the strip. The medic gave me a big shot of morphine and the pain subsided somewhat. We flew to Tok to refuel. I tried to talk the crew into letting me buy a pizza at Fast Eddies, had been dreaming about it for 8 days. The crew thought it was a great idea but the medic wouldn't go for it because the morphine causes gag reflex. Oh well, next time. After refueling took off for Fairbanks. Morphine had wore off and the pain was really getting bad. The medic didn't want to give me any more because he didn't want me to pass out. It was a rough ride to Fairbanks and I was about to pass out from the pain. One of the crew gave me a night vision helmet to distract me. It worked for a bit. WOW, long trip. Finally landed at the hospital. Somehow made it into the ER. Turned out I had dislocated my shoulder. All told it was out about 9 hrs, the toughest hrs I have had. I took a wilderness 1st aid class that fall to learn what to do for such an injury in the future. The instructor didn't want to talk about it much. Lots of complications can occur resetting in the field. I know I would try something.


    Moral Of Story: MAKE 2 TRIPS!!!!!!

  4. #4

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    sheep hunter, did that cost you $$$?

  5. #5
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Emergency Medivac

    The worst thing that happened to me was stabbing myself in the leg with a fillet knife. It went in on top of the thigh and could have used a few stitches, but I gauzed it up and finished the trip just fine.

    But another time I had a hunter who ended up in serious trouble. He was light-headed, dizzy, pale, etc. and when he told me he had been around his grandkids who had the flu just before his hunt, we thought it was the flu.

    Well, the symptoms persisted for three days and finally one morning he got up to answer the call of nature, and when he returned to the tent I noticed that he was really pale. I approached him to see if he was okay and he collapsed literally in my arms. That's when his hunting partner asked me if I thought that blueberry he ate the other day (one blueberry!) would be enough to make his stool black. Well, anyone who has ever taken a first aid course knows that a black stool can be a sign of internal bleeding. I laid the hunter down in the tent and immediately sent out a Mayday on the aviation radio (no satphone on that trip). We got lucky and caught an Air National Guard Herc (C-130) on a training mission not too far away. They skipped our message to the Rescue Coordination Center in Anchorage, and within 2 1/2 hours of the initial call the guy was in Providence Hospital. They did exploratory surgery to determine what was going on because the symptoms were very vague, but his blood pressure was WAY down. They found a tumor in his stomach that had an artery associated with it. The artery had ruptured and he's actually lost eight units of blood. The doc later told me that if he'd waited another half-hour, he would have died.

    The moral of the story? Be very observant of your hunting companions, and if anything seems wrong, get them out of there. Second point- even the best of intentions will fail if you don't have a way to communicate. Bring a satphone and a GPS!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
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    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
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  6. #6

    Default Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by highcountry View Post
    sheep hunter, did that cost you $$$?
    The Dust Off guys told me that I could get backcharged if someone who was in the business objected. No one did and I did not. They used it as a training exercise.

  7. #7
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    Wink

    Can"t get better training than that!
    ; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 SAMUEL 2;30

  8. #8
    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey guys I got 2 for ya that happened back in Michigan.And a really dumb one that happened up here.

    1)I was bow hunting on my dads property in L'anse and it was getting kinda late so down the lader from the tree stand I came with bow in hand, misstake number 1. About half way down I lost my grip on the rail and fell, big surprise. At first I thaught all was well then I looked down at my leg. Hu thats wierd I should'nt be able to see the sole of my boat from this angle so I stood up on my good leg and could still see the sole of my boot, and my anckle was getting really painful, now I knew I was in trouble. So I tried to set it, mistake numer 2. When I came too, it was totally dark and I was alone and had'nt told anyone where I was going, mistake number 3. I managed to fashion a crutch out of a small log I found on the ground and made my way out of the woods, what should have been a nice easy 1 hour stroll turned into 3 hours in hades. Folowed by a 45 minutes of driving with the wrong foot too get too the hospital. Morale; Ya know the safety rules follow them dummy!!!!

    2) I was doing a ice climbing demo with some freinds at Munising falls in Munising Micnigan. At the time there was this beautiful long woman who'd been hanging out with my goup of freinds who I wanted too hook up with in the worst way. Well when I started my climb she asked to belay for me and insisted she could hold me, she could'nt. I fell about 25 feet and fractured t11 in my back. Off on anothe 45 minute ride too the hopital. Took 6 months too recover and I still have problems related too that injury. Morale when it comes too safty dont let a nice but influance your choices.

    3) I was guiding for sea Kayaking in Seward. And had any early trip headed out on a water taxi for Hollgate glacier. I packed up the gear woke the guide and off we went. As I was driving down lowell point road the trailer came unhitched and fell. I was unable to raise it with the jack so I said too my guide "I'm going too pick up the trailer when I doo get a board under the jack quick, this thing wieghs about 400 lbs. and I wont be able too hold it long" So I picked it up and she started to slide the board in "hurry", "your foots in the way" was her reply. So I shifted my foot and crushed L4 at the base of my spine. I missed 3 hunting seasons and my wife had too do total care on me for 6 months after that one. Trust me ther's nothing more hummilliating than having to have your wife do everything for you. Morrale accindents can happen anywhere at anytime niow your limits and I'm not as yong as I once was.

    I know the last 2 had nothing too do with hunting but hoppfully this will help somone will learn from my mistakes. By the way I'm now one of the most safty minded careful people you will ever meet and I hate hights now.

  9. #9
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    The worst thing that happened to me was stabbing myself in the leg with a fillet knife. It went in on top of the thigh and could have used a few stitches, but I gauzed it up and finished the trip just fine.

    But another time I had a hunter who ended up in serious trouble. He was light-headed, dizzy, pale, etc. and when he told me he had been around his grandkids who had the flu just before his hunt, we thought it was the flu.

    Well, the symptoms persisted for three days and finally one morning he got up to answer the call of nature, and when he returned to the tent I noticed that he was really pale. I approached him to see if he was okay and he collapsed literally in my arms. That's when his hunting partner asked me if I thought that blueberry he ate the other day (one blueberry!) would be enough to make his stool black. Well, anyone who has ever taken a first aid course knows that a black stool can be a sign of internal bleeding. I laid the hunter down in the tent and immediately sent out a Mayday on the aviation radio (no satphone on that trip). We got lucky and caught an Air National Guard Herc (C-130) on a training mission not too far away. They skipped our message to the Rescue Coordination Center in Anchorage, and within 2 1/2 hours of the initial call the guy was in Providence Hospital. They did exploratory surgery to determine what was going on because the symptoms were very vague, but his blood pressure was WAY down. They found a tumor in his stomach that had an artery associated with it. The artery had ruptured and he's actually lost eight units of blood. The doc later told me that if he'd waited another half-hour, he would have died.

    The moral of the story? Be very observant of your hunting companions, and if anything seems wrong, get them out of there. Second point- even the best of intentions will fail if you don't have a way to communicate. Bring a satphone and a GPS!

    -Mike
    WOW

    Twisted ankle is all I had on a hunting trip. Dam logs get in the way all the time .
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  10. #10

    Default

    Thankfully I have never been hurt seriously, however carrying heavy weight in a pack and or even say 35-45 lbs in a pack in rocky steep terran can always be treachorous and anyone who has done it knows that theres been many times you felt that twang and thought oooh **** that didn't feel good be it a knee ligament or an ankle. Last fall I made a ditch effort late in the season to make a run at a walk in sheep hunt area. I was about 3 1/2 miles up the creek that I had jumped across about 50 times (or so it seemed) and I went to boulder hop one last spot and had too much of my foot on the green slimey stuff that was on the rock and when I went to jump I slipped. I had been doing this for a couple hours and for some reason had both trekking poles in one hand instead of one in each. I slipped and rolled my ankle as I busted my you know what in the creek. I only had like 35 lbs of gear on my back and I was by myself. I ended up getting up, felt my ankle twanging, took my boot off and put my foot in the cold water. it started to feel better but was by know means 100%. I decided to take a break and had some lunch and then I tried to hike up a small ridge above to see how bad my ankle was. I got up there and realized that I was not capable of continuing for fear that tomorrow, the next day, it would be worse and I still had like 2-3 miles to go before I would be looking for sheep. I was alone and decided the smartest thing to do was to head out and back, took my time and got back right before dark. The moral of the story is if your gonna hunt alone , you have to make smart decisions. I knew there were sheep where I was going and I wanted to continue sooo bad but I could only imagine being stuck up there with a swollen and tender ankle (I have played lots of sports and knew exactly what had happened to my ankle) and having trouble getting out. The smartest thing was not to fight thru it and continue but to head back to hunt another day.My ankle was swelled up pretty good the next day and very tender as I expected. I was bummed but I felt very good about the decision I had made.

  11. #11
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default whoa

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick P View Post
    Hey guys I got 2 for ya that happened back in Michigan.And a really dumb one that happened up here.

    1)I was bow hunting on my dads property in L'anse and it was getting kinda late so down the lader from the tree stand I came with bow in hand, misstake number 1. About half way down I lost my grip on the rail and fell, big surprise. At first I thaught all was well then I looked down at my leg. Hu thats wierd I should'nt be able to see the sole of my boat from this angle so I stood up on my good leg and could still see the sole of my boot, and my anckle was getting really painful, now I knew I was in trouble. So I tried to set it, mistake numer 2. When I came too, it was totally dark and I was alone and had'nt told anyone where I was going, mistake number 3. I managed to fashion a crutch out of a small log I found on the ground and made my way out of the woods, what should have been a nice easy 1 hour stroll turned into 3 hours in hades. Folowed by a 45 minutes of driving with the wrong foot too get too the hospital. Morale; Ya know the safety rules follow them dummy!!!!

    2) I was doing a ice climbing demo with some freinds at Munising falls in Munising Micnigan. At the time there was this beautiful long woman who'd been hanging out with my goup of freinds who I wanted too hook up with in the worst way. Well when I started my climb she asked to belay for me and insisted she could hold me, she could'nt. I fell about 25 feet and fractured t11 in my back. Off on anothe 45 minute ride too the hopital. Took 6 months too recover and I still have problems related too that injury. Morale when it comes too safty dont let a nice but influance your choices.

    3) I was guiding for sea Kayaking in Seward. And had any early trip headed out on a water taxi for Hollgate glacier. I packed up the gear woke the guide and off we went. As I was driving down lowell point road the trailer came unhitched and fell. I was unable to raise it with the jack so I said too my guide "I'm going too pick up the trailer when I doo get a board under the jack quick, this thing wieghs about 400 lbs. and I wont be able too hold it long" So I picked it up and she started to slide the board in "hurry", "your foots in the way" was her reply. So I shifted my foot and crushed L4 at the base of my spine. I missed 3 hunting seasons and my wife had too do total care on me for 6 months after that one. Trust me ther's nothing more hummilliating than having to have your wife do everything for you. Morrale accindents can happen anywhere at anytime niow your limits and I'm not as yong as I once was.

    I know the last 2 had nothing too do with hunting but hoppfully this will help somone will learn from my mistakes. By the way I'm now one of the most safty minded careful people you will ever meet and I hate hights now.

    Wow, Rick, almost had to chuckle about that babe with the nice derriere that rewarded you with the 25' plunge, but then again, I wasnt feelin your pain!
    The total care gig is anything but humorous, give that wife (and your chiropractor) an extra hug.
    Thanks for the candor, hunting or not, something for everyone in that list!

  12. #12
    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Fullkurl;
    Just glad I got alot smarter with age.When I was a kid I spent so much time in the ER at Marquette general they used to send me a x-mass card every year!! Not kidding!!!

  13. #13
    Member sbiinc's Avatar
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    Default not so bad

    well my only real accident in the woods was a fly in hunt trip. the second day on the trip we had a big brownie walk out of the woods, the first shot took almost 1/2 my eyebrow out... so much for shooting off hand and accross my body. i decided i wouldn't spoil my hunting partners chances of a bear and tied it up with a spare shirt for the next 5 days. so i now have a nice crescent scar above my eye.... 20 years of actively shooting weapons and the first time i think i've ever been close to buck fever.

    the only other time i felt in trouble wasn't really an accident but just a sad realization how fast alaska can get you... i was hunting sheep up high and had some bad weather roll in on me too fast, i didn't have time to get back to my camp and was solo'ing it with not enough good gear in my pack. i've had to swim in the nenana river in the canyon and it didn't come close to how cold i was when the weather cleared. i had emergency fire starting gear and could barely start a fire due to my fingers wouldn't work so well and my teeth chattering a mile a minute. i got out of all my wet clothes and sat on the side of the mountain trying to get warm for quite a while under a poncho, absolutely the worse hunting experience of my life.

  14. #14
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    Smile

    Once I was checking beaver traps and crossing a pond. Went through the ice while wearing snowshoes. Trying to swim with snowshoes on and the ice breaking as I went was kinda scarry. It was also tough getting up the steep back but made it to land in about 1/2 hours. Naturally was all alone and no one knew where my traps were. I would have gotten hypothermia except I was so hot-mad at myself for being dumb. That was 40 years ago and I am happy to report nothing serious since then. Just more lucky now.

  15. #15

    Default a long one

    I almost never hunt with a partner; I’m more of a loner when I hunt. When hunting Alaska, though, this is usually a bad idea; the threat of grizzly bear attack and the remoteness of the area makes having a hunting partner a wise choice. However, my original partner was unable to make the trip, so without any other options, I made preparation to go alone. A few weeks before the trip, it just so happened to work out that a few of my sister’s friends in Alaska had a friend that wanted to come with me. We talked several times and planned to go together. The gentleman that came with me, Chris Buckley, was a huge factor in saving my life. He actually rented a satellite phone at the last minute, “just in case”- after we had already discussed we didn’t need it.

    In my estimation, the accident happened in early afternoon. I had just awakened from a nap after our morning hunt. Chris was still sleeping, and I decided to go fish on the river for grayling before our evening hunt. Carrying my pole and my rifle for protection, I walked to the riverbank, and began to fish. I was reeling my second cast when I heard the sound of a twig snapping to my right. I immediately dropped my pole and positioned the rifle from my shoulder. I was startled by the thought that the animal was a bear, but as I looked in front of me, I noticed a bull moose rack moving towards me. I put the rifle up to my shoulder and looked through the scope. After a few short seconds of determining whether it was a legal kill, I decided it was a shooter bull; I cocked the hammer back, put the crosshairs on the bull moose’s shoulder, and squeezed the trigger. The moose lunged forward, then ran toward me to my right. As it was running, I broke open the chamber and reloaded the rifle. I placed the crosshairs of the scope onto the chest of the moose and squeezed the trigger a second time. Immediately, I felt an excruciating pain on the right side of my face. I looked down and noticed that my rifle was in two pieces. I immediately dropped the gun and began to stumble in the opposite direction, putting my hand up to my face. Blood poured from the right of my face onto the ground and onto my clothes and hands; I noticed that it was an excessive amount and immediately stopped moving. I dropped to my knees and rolled onto my back, yelling for Chris to help. Chris came up, running, trying to find out what had happened. I replied that my rifle had broken and he noticed that I was bleeding severely, despite my putting pressure on the wound. The blood from the wound saturated my glove; I ripped it off and reapplied pressure with my hand. I began to pray as I realized that these were probably my last moments alive, while Chris raced back to the campsite to use the satellite phone to call for help. He returned with the phone and I heard his attempts to contact someone for help. No one answered his first phone call to Golden Eagle Outfitters. He dialed again, this time to the Dept. of Fish and Game, where he spoke with an officer and told him our location. The officer told him to inspect the wound. As I removed my hand, I heard Chris muffle the phone and reply that it looked very bad. At the officer’s advice, Chris retrieved a cloth for me to bandage my face. Then, the phone died. I grew very cold; when my friend saw that I was beginning to shiver uncontrollably, he brought back my sleeping bag and covered me; shortly afterward, I began to vomit. At this point, I was beginning to lose awareness. I remember that Chris was walking around me, looking for the moose and the rifle that I had dropped.

    After what seemed like a short time (in actuality, sixty minutes had elapsed), I heard the sound of a helicopter approaching. It landed, and two people came out to pick me up. They told me their names and that they worked for the US Military while they put my on a stretcher, asking Chris if he wanted to come along. He decided not to, as our equipment was still unpacked at the campsite. As they began to move me into the helicopter, I vomited a second time. Once inside, they covered me with a blanket. We began to take off as I continued to vomit. I remembered waking up as we landed at Fairbanks Memorial Hospital, about 45 minutes later. They started to wheel me into the hospital; the doctor informed me that we would be going into surgery immediately, and that he would likely remove the eye. I pleaded with him to try everything possible, but not to remove my eye. I awoke the next day, some time after surgery had ended.

    The doctor had miraculously been able to piece my eye and parts of my face back together. I spent most of the following week sleeping and pushing my morphine button when the pain grew unbearable. Later, the doctor told me he thought was fortunate to have been hit in the eye and cheek area instead of the forehead. He speculated that I could have been killed instantly, had it struck my forehead directly.

    I flew back home to Michigan to see a few specialists. Each told me that my eye was a lost cause. All were worried about a reaction to eye rupture called Sympathetic Ophthalmia, which can happen immediately or even decades after an accident like mine. Sympathetic Ophthalmia is a type of inflammation in both eyes following trauma to one eye, and eventually causes sight to be lost in both. One visit was particularly discouraging. I visited a prominent specialist in Detroit- one of the best eye doctors in the country- and was hopeful that if anyone could do something, he’d be able. But his prognosis was grim. At the end of the consultation, I asked, “What would it take for you to operate on my eye?” He brusquely replied, “I would operate if you could see some light. But that’s not going to happen. You ought to have it removed.”

    I really struggled with this advice. It seemed that from the very beginning, God had given me confidence that He would show Himself mighty through me and through this accident. I simply couldn’t accept the fact that my eye needed to be removed, and after careful prayer, I decided against the procedure.

    I went on medical leave from work and went back home to my parents’ house in Charlevoix, Michigan, to continue to recover. On September 21, after long days praying, hoping, and growing more discouraged, I began to ask God, “Why? Why me? Why not some ‘worse’ person? Why not someone who despises You instead of someone who loves You?” Immediately, I came to the realization clearer than ever before: I was not deserving of any kindness- I actually was deserving of worse. Anything we do have is purely because of God’s mercy, because we have all gone our own way. Through tears I just asked God for help- nothing specific, just help.

    Later on, the same day, I was outside talking to my mother. I looked up toward some trees and a saw a flash of light in my eye! Incredulously, I blinked – but it was still there. Needless to say, I was beside myself with joy! I went back to the specialist that had discouraged me so greatly. He gave me some tests and was amazed that I could see light. He said that, after 25 years of being a specialist, he had only seen five people regain light recognition after having no sight for as long as I had- 21 days.

    Due to that development, a second surgery was performed to reattach my retina. The surgery was successful, but it will take far more than a reattached retina to restore my sight- it’s going to take a miracle. I still only see light, but each day I am hoping, praying, and waiting on God. I think that’s where we should be no matter our circumstances. Although I still struggle with my circumstances at times, and I’m still adjusting to life with one eye, I am more aware now of how fortunate I am and all the blessings in my life.

    Miracles: in synopsis
    1) Friend to help me
    2) A phone call for help, and it went dead on 2nd call
    3) Accident was on a gravel bar for the helicopter to land
    4) Reassembly of my eye
    5) Seeing light after 21days
    6) God preserving my faith

    Never in a million years would I have thought that something like that would happen. I’ve never even heard of anything similar.
    Last edited by Bernie1; 03-05-2007 at 10:09.

  16. #16
    Member lawdog's Avatar
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    Default WOW that's amazing..

    Do you know more about how it happened? Also, what type of gun?

  17. #17

    Default

    To make a long story short it was not my fault. The manufacture was just bought by Smith and Wesson.

  18. #18
    Member AKFishOn's Avatar
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    Default Bear Finger

    Father got Bear Finger on my Spring 04 Brown Bear Hunt and had some massive swelling followed by a zig zag cut then a hour rinse. Don't forget your surgical gloves.

  19. #19

    Default injury while hunting

    Several years ago we were sheep hunting in the Chugiak range near Knick glacier. We were working our four wheelers up a trail. It was rainy and muddy. The trail had a dog leg bend on it. I did not make the hill the machine started to slip down the hill even when i had the brakes engaged it was very very slippery. I was unable to negotiate the dog leg going backwards and it started to roll off the side of the hill, looked like a mountain to me. I jumped and rolled. The machine made a complete bounce, rolled once bounced and landed on me. The metal foot rest poked me just below my ribs creating a huge bruise. My thigh had a big bruise, and my right hand had a bone poking out of it. This was the second day of a ten day hunt. We re grouped and i duct taped my hand tight and put up with the pain in my stomack and thigh and we stayed out for the next 7 days. About the most difficult thing other then the pain was in trying to give the machine gas with my left hand, kind of like having my harmes crossed. People ask me what i would have done if i saw a ram. I answer i would have found a way to shoot i even if i had to use my toes! Tough trip, but the toughest part was litening to the wife when i got home all bruised and banged up. Doctors looked at my hand and sent me home as the bones were all taped where they should have been, got pretty lucky although i do have a bupm on my hand now that was nevver there before! Chef

  20. #20
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default you gotta be kidding me

    Quote Originally Posted by chef viktor View Post
    Several years ago we were sheep hunting in the Chugiak range near Knick glacier. We were working our four wheelers up a trail. It was rainy and muddy. The trail had a dog leg bend on it. I did not make the hill the machine started to slip down the hill even when i had the brakes engaged it was very very slippery. I was unable to negotiate the dog leg going backwards and it started to roll off the side of the hill, looked like a mountain to me. I jumped and rolled. The machine made a complete bounce, rolled once bounced and landed on me. The metal foot rest poked me just below my ribs creating a huge bruise. My thigh had a big bruise, and my right hand had a bone poking out of it. This was the second day of a ten day hunt. We re grouped and i duct taped my hand tight and put up with the pain in my stomack and thigh and we stayed out for the next 7 days. About the most difficult thing other then the pain was in trying to give the machine gas with my left hand, kind of like having my harmes crossed. People ask me what i would have done if i saw a ram. I answer i would have found a way to shoot i even if i had to use my toes! Tough trip, but the toughest part was litening to the wife when i got home all bruised and banged up. Doctors looked at my hand and sent me home as the bones were all taped where they should have been, got pretty lucky although i do have a bupm on my hand now that was nevver there before! Chef
    Chef, you continued to hunt the next seven days with a bone protruding through your duct taped hand?!
    I'm trying to figure out if you are tough or just nuts!
    Did you get your sheep?

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