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Thread: Looking for companies that apply Nitride finishes

  1. #1

    Default Looking for companies that apply Nitride finishes

    Over the next few months I'm looking to have some rifle parts, and a complete bolt action rifle Nitride finished.

    Today I received my AR-10 bolt carrier group back from getting Nitride finished. I was given an "in-your-hands" promise of 2 to 3 weeks to have it finished and back to me. The work looks good, but it took about three months, one week short of a quarter of a year, to get my bolt carrier back. My attempts to communicate with the company, email and telephone messages, seeking to find out of my rife parts were safe, lost, not done, or whatever, were largely ignored. I'm disappointed with that Delaware, OH company. This bolt carrier was my "test" order to see if that company was worth working with. I know that answer now so he won't get the rest of my business.

    So..the question...Do you know of who I can work with that applies the black Nitride finish? (FYI: I'm in the Army Stationed at Ft Campbell KY.) I'm hoping to find a proven company who has a reasonable price, a reasonable turn-around time, and does good work.

    Thank you!

    MyTime

  2. #2

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    I think you're talking about Salt-Bath Nitriding. Here's a video clip Of Joel Kendricks who is associated with MMI TruTec. It sounds like a real good thing. Increased barrel life, increased resistance to corrosion and increased velocity. They recommend low round count barrels that have been broken in. Maybe 30 rounds. You want to break the barrel in prior because the once the nitriding is done, what ever tooling and rough spots are in the bore become permanent. They don't recommend high round count barrels because the results have shown a loss of accuracy with those. When I spoke with Joel about Nitriding actions, he said some actions can be treated and some not. The process invloves a soaking in 1100 degree salt bath and some actions can't take it because of the way/temp they were forged or cast. He told me Remington 700's and Savages were OK. Bottom line, check with the the company first. Two I know of that have a good track record are TruTec and Benchmark. I believe Benchmark will also lap your barrel before and after the treatment to eliminate the break-in.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiegZ...layer_embedded

    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-is-impressed/

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    we use MMI Tru tec

  4. #4

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    Just what I was looking for - - thank you!

    I found MMI Tru Tec on the internet and there's a location in TN about 4 hours from my home. I found a lot of companies named "Benchmark" but have not yet found the correct one. I'll give MMI a call next week and see what they have to say.

    I'd like to get a couple of AR-15 bolt carriers and my newest rifle, a 308 Savage 12FVSS coated. The Savage has right at 100-115 rounds through it.

    Thanks guys!

    My Time AJ

  5. #5

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    I am in contact with a guy from AK who has had many of his rifles nitrided. He said he sends his rifles to Benchmark because they are the fastest.

    Here's their info...

    Benchmark Barrels
    Arlington, WA
    Phone: (360) 652-2594
    e-mail: benchmarkbarrels@yahoo.com

    I'll be giving them a call also because I've got a couple of custom barrels on order.

  6. #6

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    I spoke with Chris at Benchmark barrels today and this is what I learned. They send all their stuff to MMI TruTec. He said that TruTec's new policy is to only take barrels and parts from manufacturer's or Freedom Arms. (I haven't confirmed this with TruTec yet) Benchmark Barrels is a manufacturer. They do lap the bore and chamber before and after to give the best possible result. When I asked if I should fire and break the barrel in first, he said to just fire a couple of rounds through it to ensure it works... also said he doesn't recommend anymore than that for overbore cartridges because any fire cracking in the bore can lead to bad results from being nitirided. He said turn around time is approx 1 month.

    I like the idea that Benchmark laps the chamber and bore eliminating the need for break-in.

  7. #7

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    MontanaRifleman,

    Tomorrow I'll call Benchmark and ask about the 110-115 hand-loaded cartridges that I've fired out of the new rifle. If this process is contraindicated due to the "cartridges-fired count", I will be disappointed, but ok because my new rifle is stainless steel.

    MyTime AJ

  8. #8

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    You might be OK with the 308. The thing to do is get it borescoped by someone who knows what they're looking at. If you dont have any fire cracking you should be good to go. If you do, then just wait til next barrel. I'm sure Benchmark could evaluate your bore also, but then you're risking the effort and expense of shipping.

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    I like the idea that Benchmark laps the chamber and bore eliminating the need for break-in.
    Good barrels dont need to be broken in

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    I too was wondering who and why would lap a chamber? Oh well

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I too was wondering who and why would lap a chamber? Oh well
    Whatever...

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Good barrels dont need to be broken in
    Would you consider a Broughton a good barrel???

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I too was wondering who and why would lap a chamber? Oh well
    Kid, tell ya what.... instead of specualating and interpreting my conversation with Chris at Benchmark, why don't you just call him for yourself and get back to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Kid, tell ya what.... instead of specualating and interpreting my conversation with Chris at Benchmark, why don't you just call him for yourself and get back to us.
    Probably because he is busy building rifles.......................

    Would you consider a Broughton a good barrel???
    I have no idea who he is other than reading his website and reading about his barrels on 6mmbr.com. If someone wants a broughton barrel he can have one. If someone wants a Lilja he can have one, same for a Douglas or krieger or McMillan or Snerdly Snoids...and if Gale McMillan says dont break them in and your particular barrel woobie says break 'em in, then you can toss netshoes at each other till they are blue in the face, that debate has been going on since the net came into existence and before then

    But there is no such thing as a Blaser barrel that doesnt shoot submoa, and guess what, Steyrs too. Niether need break in, espcially the hammer forged chamber calibers (and remember what barrle break in is for). Maybe you should try a more interesting debate, such as hammer forging over button rifling, or explain to us why a premium barrel maker would not hand lap it before it leaves his shop, or PO Ackleys views on lapping..... even better.

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    I merely asked why a chamber would need lapping. I have always read been told and had the best results accuracy wise with minimum size chambers, and can see absolutely no gain in lapping one unless you want it to be larger. That's all, but hey everyone is free to do as they wish with their rifles, so if anyone feels the need lap away.

  16. #16

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Probably because he is busy building rifles.......................
    But he has enough time to add his 2 cents into this thread on the heels of your comment.......


    I have no idea who he is other than reading his website and reading about his barrels on 6mmbr.com. If someone wants a broughton barrel he can have one. If someone wants a Lilja he can have one, same for a Douglas or krieger or McMillan or Snerdly Snoids...and if Gale McMillan says dont break them in and your particular barrel woobie says break 'em in, then you can toss netshoes at each other till they are blue in the face, that debate has been going on since the net came into existence and before then

    But there is no such thing as a Blaser barrel that doesnt shoot submoa, and guess what, Steyrs too. Niether need break in, espcially the hammer forged chamber calibers (and remember what barrle break in is for). Maybe you should try a more interesting debate, such as hammer forging over button rifling, or explain to us why a premium barrel maker would not hand lap it before it leaves his shop, or PO Ackleys views on lapping..... even better.
    Breaking-in barrels is not about accuracy, it's about conditioning your barrel. Some people do it and some don't. I do it and have seen good results from it. Benchmark Barrels prefers to condition the bore chamber by removing any tooling marks before the nitriding procees and have had good success with it. If you don't agree, fine. As I'm sure you know, the nitriding process hardens the steel surface to about R 65. When that happens, any tooling marks or other irregularities in the become permanent.

    Broughtons are good barrels as well as the others you mentioned and some barrel makers recommend break-in and some don't. I spoke with both Tim North (Broughton Barrels) and Joel Kendricks (MMI TruTec) and they both recommended breaking in the barrel prior to the nitriding as did my smith whose customers have had a number of their barrels nitrided with good results. I asked Chris about breaking in the barrel and he wasn't keen on me shooting it much because it was an overbore and he didn't want me to risk any throat erosion or firecracking because they have seen bad results from barrels nitirded with throat erosion and firecracking.... I'm sure you don't send out any of your customers barrels in that condition for nitriding.

    ...that debate has been going on since the net came into existence and before then
    Exactly, so why are you bringing it up?

    I am not interested in a debate, but it seems like you are. The OP asked a question and I'm trying to be helpful and point him in the right direction. If you want to debate, I suggest starting another thread.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I merely asked why a chamber would need lapping. I have always read been told and had the best results accuracy wise with minimum size chambers, and can see absolutely no gain in lapping one unless you want it to be larger. That's all, but hey everyone is free to do as they wish with their rifles, so if anyone feels the need lap away.
    I'm not a barrel maker so if your really interested in "why" then my suggestion is to call the guys at Benchmark and ask them why. They have had a lot of good success and I know a guy who has had a bunch of barrels done by them is extremely happy with results and accuracy. That's good enough for me. The OP can make up his own mind.

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    But he has enough time to add his 2 cents into this thread on the heels of your comment.......
    Good for him. He needs to get out more. I've tried to interest him in Strip Joints, 420 and Fine Scotch, but he's too interested in guns and hunting along with his yucky taste in Coors (mass quantities preferred, he hath the liver of "a kid

    Exactly, so why are you bringing it up?

    I am not interested in a debate, but it seems like you are.
    I bet I could find something in the DSM IV-TR that would fit that response.

    Anyway good barrels dont need to be broken in

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    I am going to call MMI tru tec but it is Sunday morning and I am bored so .... can you nitride a CM action (thinking model 70) ?

    the discussion over bore break-in is truly an "old" one and I too have been told both ways - John Noveske told me that you don't really want an absolutely smooooth bore but the layman will never be able to tell that difference - I am also wondering if anyone besides me has tried cryogenic tempering ? I have had 8 rifles done and could honestly tell a difference in accuracy with 5 of 'em but this I can say with "8 gun certainty" it made triggers tuned to 3# break at 2 1/2 - 2 3/4 with nothing done whatsoever and the explanation is that it makes the surface of the treated metal "smoother" (I think more consistent is a better term myself) and all the barrels clean like a dream - the service I use today is in Puyallup WA and he strongly feels that it works better on CM steel than SS - I have also had knife blades done and they are now a "*****" to sharpen ...

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    Where did you send it to be nitrided? what kind of nitriding was done to it ? Black finish? I can suggest a much better place to have it done, better qaulity, better turn around.

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