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Thread: Palmer Hay Flats representation needed by hunters

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    Member akblackdawg's Avatar
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    Default Palmer Hay Flats representation needed by hunters

    http://us.mc596.mail.yahoo.com/mc/we....jsrand=137004

    The above link is to a email from "Alaskans for the Palmer Hayflats that I just received. They are wanting particapation from interested people and volunteers for their Board of Directors. We as hunters who actively utalize the hayflats have a vital interest in the management and control of the flats. I am hoping to generate interest here and perhaps get a couple of us on the board of directors to help with the management of the flats. I also received a email advertising a "Executive Director" position for the Alaskans for the Palmer Hayflats, and will attempt to post it here also in case there is any interest in that postion. I do believe it is vital to protect our hunting rights on the flats that we be active and well represented in this organization.

    http://us.mc596.mail.yahoo.com/mc/we...jsrand=1096342

    The above is a link to the "Executive Director" position. Bud

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    Member kwackkillncrew's Avatar
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    i clicked the links but it would not let me open them. it said there was some type of error
    I will never be a "Prostaffer" its not that I am not good enough
    but its because I refuse to pimp products for free.

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    Member akblackdawg's Avatar
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    If difficulties connecting, you can go to www.palmerhayflats.org

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    I am a diehard waterfowler and have been a member of this fine group of caring people since just about the beginning. They support all user groups and that includes hunters. I have submitted my name to become a board member as I am now retired and have the time to give. This is a very fine organization and I encourage all to join as a member and to help out labor wise, etc. as they have many good projects going on this summer. We have such a fine refuge and as a member of DU and Delta Waterfowl I am very disappointed that they do not help with some support. It seems like all DU does up here is have banquets constantly. They certainly have enough chapters which I think is great but how are they really helping Alaska waterfowl? Certainly not on the Palmer Hayflats. Please check out Alaskans for Palmer Hayflats, I think you will be surprising pleased.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1lab View Post
    We have such a fine refuge and as a member of DU and Delta Waterfowl I am very disappointed that they do not help with some support. .... but how are they really helping Alaska waterfowl? Certainly not on the Palmer Hayflats.
    One of the few DU habitat projects in Alaska was at the Hay Flats many years ago. Look at the Hay Flats in google earth and check out those funny looking "peace" signs in the weeds near the Knik Bridge. That was a nesting habitat experiment that was part of the wetlands metigation for building the wider highway through the wetlands.

    What is happening at the Hay Flats currently are access improvements. DU does not fund access improvements. Their focus is on habitat improvements. Delta also does not fund access improvements. Occassionaly you will see where access at a refuge in the L48 was improved as part of a large project, but no DU funds were spent on the access portion.

    Can you indentify what habitat improvements the Hay Flats needs so that proposals can be developed and submitted to DU or Delta?

    No where on the APH website can I see where they state they want to improve the habitat. Lots of building of facilities to study the refuge and educate people but little specifically about improving habitat.

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    I have nothing against DU, I think they do some great work getting good habitat for birds. However, it has been my experience that when they develop a project in an area, they close it to hunting. I would not like to see the hayflats closed down since this is my stomping grounds. I think if somebody does submit a proposal they should get clarification on whether DU will close it down.
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
    "Swans are a gift" -DucksandDogs
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    Best to call them directly as they have a bunch of items going on. I always thought hen houses would be nice but there may be a reason it has never been looked at or maybe it was and found to not be a good idea. Fish & Game should know, I believe. If you call APH office they should be able to give you the number of the refuge manager and see what ideas he has. I met him last summer but his name escapes me, but I do remember he is in charge of about 5 refuges. I do believe this year APH is putting in permament bathrooms at Cottonwood and there will be a camp host there this year. It should help keep the vandels away (I hope). APH is trying to improve access and yes they want to build a science center as well. We need to teach the next generation (and some aduts now) how to take care of the outdoors so we all can enjoy our interests. We need people from all user groups to come together to make sure the refuge is taken care of. I expect to continue hunting and training dogs there for as long as the good Lord allows me to. The club could really use some input from the dog clubs and trainers that use the refuge. Trash wise things seem to be better in the parking areas, but I still pick up a full bag almost every time I go (about twice a week). Also Rabbit Creek road was shut down for awhile to help during the winter thaw. Seems some so called adults tore up things abit. Hopefully not the same ones that put all the bullet holes in the nice sign at Reflection Lake. Idoits like that is what turns people against hunting. It only takes a small minority to ruin it for all.

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    As a new resident to Alaska I like the flats areas and would love to help support it if I can. Having said that, if you want to continue the use of that area, you don't want DU involved. It really doesn't need to be said though because the way DU habitat improvement areas work. There is a money match program and I highly doubt that PHF will be putting in enough money to get a DU match an project. I am sure there are a few DU members who see that and may disagree, but I was a DU board member for many years and was in a very high dollar raising area, we had one of the higher dollar per member donation areas, but all it takes is a club putting up some money that quickly gets a recovery program. That being said I don't think there is a better org. out there to support for duck hunting or conservation, last time I was involved it was about 82 cents out of every dollar went directly to habitat restoration, but as for restoring habitat, you better not plan on hunting it any time soon.

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    Great post, I think PHF would really like to hear from you. Your insight would prove very valuable.

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    Thanks guys I just puked all over my key board. It's seems Some still don't get it that there are a lot of people that would like to shut the PHF down to hunting. The fastest way to do that is to kill it. And the fastest way to kill it is ACCESS. It's kinda of like kill all the bison and you kill all the indians, maybe some of you don't remember your history. The refuge manager is joe Meehan. I never met the guy but the people I know that have, would just assume see him get stuck in the mud at low tide. As for the APH group I'm still not convinced that they are all that pro hunting. Now if we could get a mat-su waterfowlers association started ( and I just don't see that happening) there may be hope for the hayflats yet, but the way I see it now, the flats have 5 maybe 10 years left and we'll be looking for another place to kill ducks. Oh boy Maybe they will build a road to cordova.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckslayer56 View Post
    However, it has been my experience that when they develop a project in an area, they close it to hunting. I would not like to see the hayflats closed down since this is my stomping grounds. I think if somebody does submit a proposal they should get clarification on whether DU will close it down.
    DU has no authority to close down state lands. the state would not accept funding that went counter to the managment plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by AK DUCKMAN View Post
    Oh boy Maybe they will build a road to cordova.
    Where is Wally Hickel when you need him? "You can't let nature run wild!"

    And guys don't get too worried about a DU habitat project out there. There is no need for one since the habitat is functioning as it needs to. DU focuses on restoring lost habitat and there is nothing lost out on the Hay Flats. There could be at Duck Lake if one of the tide guts ever erodes far enough in to drain the lake. However, prevention of that kind of stuff is up to the State and they have shown they perfer the let nature take its course.

    I remember about 5 or 6 years ago a teenager from Palmer built a dozen or more nest structures and installed them on the Hay Flats as part of his boyscout merit program. He used construction and placement information from DW, but did it all on his own with permission from F&G. Any of you frequent users notice them out there over the years?

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    The hayflats used to be a great area to hunt, just too many people out there nowadays. I still hunt it but it isn't near as fun as it used to be, too many people and not enough courtesy/respect between hunters.

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    Yukon,
    You are correct, little courtesy/respect between hunters. I'm afraid we are our own worst enemy. I have hunted the flats for about 35 years and it has gone way downhill from what the hunting use to be. I wish the 4 wheeler trail from Cottonwood was closed except for truely disabiled hunters. For others it would require leg power but isn't that part of hunting. I am 63 with various medicial problems including my heart but I still walk to my hunting areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1lab View Post
    Yukon,
    You are correct, little courtesy/respect between hunters. I'm afraid we are our own worst enemy. I have hunted the flats for about 35 years and it has gone way downhill from what the hunting use to be. I wish the 4 wheeler trail from Cottonwood was closed except for truely disabiled hunters. For others it would require leg power but isn't that part of hunting. I am 63 with various medicial problems including my heart but I still walk to my hunting areas.
    You must mean the trail that no one stays on. I understand there are a few places that will swallow a wheeler but thats just part of the fun of getting there. I would be all for closing it. Go's against my beliefs but it is getting destroyed. Or improve it and fine the p*** out of anyone that go's off it. And limit the HP on the slough side to say 20-25 it's just not big enough at low tide for these guys that are running the big motors. Someone will get killed before long then they will close it. If we could get a fowlers org started or just a hunting org (people do moose hunt and other, out there as well, I'm one of them too) Not to mention fishing. Anyone have experience starting something like that? I would be all in. But I will not fallow the APH group, They just haven't proved to me that they are really pro hunting. A wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf. Maybe if they put on a youth hunt or something in that nature. I would be all for closing the flats for a week to 16 and older so we could get some young people out there to do some hunting. I would be willing to play retriever for a day.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK DUCKMAN View Post
    Thanks guys I just puked all over my key board. It's seems Some still don't get it that there are a lot of people that would like to shut the PHF down to hunting. The fastest way to do that is to kill it. And the fastest way to kill it is ACCESS. It's kinda of like kill all the bison and you kill all the indians, maybe some of you don't remember your history. The refuge manager is joe Meehan. I never met the guy but the people I know that have, would just assume see him get stuck in the mud at low tide. As for the APH group I'm still not convinced that they are all that pro hunting. Now if we could get a mat-su waterfowlers association started ( and I just don't see that happening) there may be hope for the hayflats yet, but the way I see it now, the flats have 5 maybe 10 years left and we'll be looking for another place to kill ducks. Oh boy Maybe they will build a road to cordova.
    couldnt agree more. I see nothing wrong with access as it is

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    Member AK DUCKMAN's Avatar
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    How about not just a week for kids, but opening week say sep 1st to the 7th. Adults can only shoot helping to take crips. It might even help to keep some of the riff raff out. I would still be up as a retriever just don't bring no **** dog treats. LMAO

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    Youth hunts/seasons are set up by the feds. It is not too late in the federal process to submit a proposal to establish a youth season. I'll look into the process.

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    Opening week for a youth hunt might make the marsh not so crowded, and take some pressure off the birds for that first week anyway.

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    Just a reminder, this meeting is tomorrow nite, hope to see some hunters there. Please open and read the attachment for details. We as hunters should be there or they may pass us by. Wear a camo shirt. Bud

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    All the above accompanied by sandhill cranes, waterfowl migrants and a chorus of romantic wood frogs!

    For information contact (907) 357-8711 or (907) 373-7484

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