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Thread: mud motors

  1. #1

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    Mainer tell us what made you chose Copperhead instead of some of the others offered.

    Is the copperhead a Subaru Robin?

  2. #2
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskamokaiman View Post
    Mainer tell us what made you chose Copperhead instead of some of the others offered.

    Is the copperhead a Subaru Robin?
    Andy,
    I'm crazy about canoes and grew up in em. The old guides back home used to run big "Grand Lakah" canoes that needed very little horsepower to push across big lakes the size of Tustemena, Skilak, and Lake Louise. We ran smaller square sterns up and down technical rivers and swampy dead waters. I am half Mi'kmaq and it was my tribe that created these large canoes and I was literally born into them, watching Indians at pow wows give seminars about how to build birch bark canoes. My father was a duck hunter who grew up in a small Italian neighborhood beside a paper mill and the river that powered it. He too chose to run canoes with small water-spaniels that wouldn't capsize his grumman and old town sport canoes. We fished for salmon, hunted deer, ducks, and fished for pickerel and small mouth bass in the deadwaters with this type of canoe. I began working on canoes full-time in my younger years. When I came to Alaska a decade ago, I couldn't let go of the feel of a canoe and the awesome fuel mileage achieved. The only problem was the rivers were just too shallow and it was difficult to explore certain rivers while keeping the tradition alive. I soon found myself building transom lifts and lifting my outboard motors as high as I could while still achieving optimum power and steering. I went a lot of places just like the old timers before me with their jack-a s s lifts and Grummans. Although it worked, it wasn't ideal because an outboard can only take so much abuse before you blow a lower unit.

    I decided to go with a Copperhead this year because an old friend from down in Louisiana was using one on his little john boat and said it was darned near bullet-proof. After talking with Gill and Betsy, I had one shipped up because they were wonderful folks and felt like talking with family. They are the first ones to build one light enough that I can run on my smaller and sporty 17 ft. Square Sterned canoes. I prefer a canoe that I can still maneuver with a paddle, haul one moose, and still light enough to pull over shallows. The Copperheads are all aluminum and tig welded, which makes them far more lighter than anything else out there........perfectly suited for abuse, while not being too heavy for a sporty 17 ft. canoe.

    I have a larger Freighter Canoe that will be used in the design of a large 20 ft. Freighter that are still used today by tribes in Hudson Bay, James Bay, and the larger rivers and protected waters around Nova Scotia.
    These larger canoes are still good for Alaska and better suited for heavier mud motors like the mud buddy mini, while requiring very little horsepower to push a couple quartered bull moose up the Yukon River. They are slow......but make that $4.00 a gallon fuel go as far as possible.

    If you would like to find out more about them, check out the canoe forum or call Gill and Betsy. The motor is an LCT 414 cc. the same one used in the biggest Husqvarna Snow Blowers, and passed some 1,000 hours tests. It is not a Honda clone and is a United States design and United States based company. It has big industrial bearings, and seems well built. Gill chose them because of performance, plus having parts and warranty available right from the South Carolina company.

  3. #3

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    Just wondering, with all the research I have done looking for more power I have purchased and thrown away engines that work but still not what I hoped for.
    I am getting around 14 hp out of a GX200 (it is a 7 hp)have some different cams to try when we get open water thinking that I can still push more out of the little engine.
    The OHC are the way.
    The 200 has push rods and that is the weak link I have lost the sacrificial end by over reving, and split the key way from the torque. Honda has some harmonics that break the governor arms even at idle have had to limp home more than once. Had many talks with Honda factory to come up with a solution.

    You should look up Freedom motors they have a very small engine rotary that they have mounted on a mud buddy lower end it screams. The 18.5 horse is 8.5 x 7.5 x 7.5 less than .75 lbs per horse power. Have talked with the General Manager about getting one but they are looking for investors and large numbers of unit buyers I don't know if they will even get to the point of having them for sale, but they do have impressive numbers for torque and rpm and light weight.

  4. #4
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    Mainer

    I have been considering buying a copperhead for my 14ft aluminum boat for duckhunting...I have a backwater scavenger motor 13hp and really like it...BUT...with heavy gear it burns the belts pretty fast. and just does not have the push or hp I think to move me faster. I thought the 12hp copperhead might be what I am looking for for weight and speed with the boat. What is your experience on this motor with a 14ft boat..and please explain your load and speed if any.

    thanks man
    DH
    President of Alaska Waterfowl Assoc.
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    Gen.1:26
    And God said, let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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    Lots of good info on this thread!

    Mariner, I really like how you've kept with your love for canoes and updated it with an "unconventional" motor. Power to weight ratio is HUGE with small craft.

    Alaskamokaiman, I've seen those Freedom motors but I didn't know they had the mud motor video, thanks for sharing! I too wish they would sell their engines to individuals. I first heard about this engine when I saw a show about a guy building a flying car.

    img1.jpg
    Paul Moller has spent MILLIONS of dollars building his prototypes and along the way he was instrumental in designing these engines. The problem was he insisted on going for the ultimate inventors dream; starting a whole new mode of transportation, all by himself, and retaining complete control. What he should be doing is seeding his "vision" by selling his little motors to the world to pay for his ultimate goal. He's basically been hording his technology. 40 years later and we still have no flying cars

    Erich

  6. #6
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckhunter01 View Post
    Mainer

    I have been considering buying a copperhead for my 14ft aluminum boat for duckhunting...I have a backwater scavenger motor 13hp and really like it...BUT...with heavy gear it burns the belts pretty fast. and just does not have the push or hp I think to move me faster. I thought the 12hp copperhead might be what I am looking for for weight and speed with the boat. What is your experience on this motor with a 14ft boat..and please explain your load and speed if any.

    thanks man
    DH
    I'm sorry to hear your Scavenger is burning belts. They decided to cut corners and go with cheap pulley-style belts I've heard. The Copperheads have a carbon/kevlar belt that is toothed for cogs (like a belt driven motorcycle). The 12 hp Copperhead pushes a massive prop. It's an 11 inch diameter prop which seems far too large for the size of the motor. The copperhead set up is actually comparable to an 18-23 horse long tail motor because they've effectively geared down the motor to push the bigger prop. I say sell the Scavenger and go for it. Give me a bit of time to actually get this motor on the water and you'll see reports in the canoe forum.

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    Y'all want to see some bad mud motors ? Watch this video...
    http://gator-tail.com/video_911-2.html

  8. #8
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    I hear ya...thought about going with the groved pulley wheel for both top and bottom..we will see. They said it might tear up the gears or shaft inside if it got binded up on something...or just snap them. I dont have enough experience with motors to know the difference or what other options I have with it..

    Thanks..let me know if you put it on the 14fter...sure it will rock the canoe like a bullet..so hard to compare.

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I'm sorry to hear your Scavenger is burning belts. They decided to cut corners and go with cheap pulley-style belts I've heard. The Copperheads have a carbon/kevlar belt that is toothed for cogs (like a belt driven motorcycle). The 12 hp Copperhead pushes a massive prop. It's an 11 inch diameter prop which seems far too large for the size of the motor. The copperhead set up is actually comparable to an 18-23 horse long tail motor because they've effectively geared down the motor to push the bigger prop. I say sell the Scavenger and go for it. Give me a bit of time to actually get this motor on the water and you'll see reports in the canoe forum.
    President of Alaska Waterfowl Assoc.
    http://akwaterfowl.com
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Alask...78020265619952
    AlaskaWaterfowlAssociation@gmail.com
    Gen.1:26
    And God said, let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckhunter01 View Post
    I hear ya...thought about going with the groved pulley wheel for both top and bottom..we will see. They said it might tear up the gears or shaft inside if it got binded up on something...or just snap them. I dont have enough experience with motors to know the difference or what other options I have with it..

    Thanks..let me know if you put it on the 14fter...sure it will rock the canoe like a bullet..so hard to compare.
    That's interesting. I wonder why that would be a problem when all other long tails are direct drives with nothing to slip if they hit something.

    Most brands of short tails are driven with timing belts (synchronous belts) and I've never seen guys complaining about loosing belts on Mudmotortalk.com.

    Erich

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