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Thread: 35-06 (or 35 Whelen)

  1. #1

    Default 35-06 (or 35 Whelen)

    Murphy - I have a Rem 700 classic in 35-06 - 22" barrel - shooting 225 Sierra GameKing bullets at 2640 fps using 58 gr. of AA2520 - hot load!
    This gun/load has dropped 2 elk with 2 shots - one @205 paces and the other @ 15' - bullets have worked great on elk but I think that they are two thin jacketed for moose. What is your read on this?

    Pete

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    Thumbs up 35-06 and Mooses

    Pete,

    I think you're right. The 225 Sierras are a little thin skinned for moose. Seems the average shot on elk is about 100 yds. Hmmm!
    I would opt for the 250 grain and in a Partition or Kodiak bonded with the Whelen. You can expect 2500 fps or so from the 250's and at that velocity the bullet doesn't have to be real tough, such as a A-frame or Bear Claw but the Whelen velocities and Partitions or Kodiaks are a perfect match for moose.
    Good shootin'.

    Murphy

    What, 15', you couldn't get closer?

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    Default to thin??

    hmmm,ive shot many moose with 180 grain bullets.Of course i choose good quality.Never had a problem being to thin.By the way I use a 300 magnum,No problems.

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    Unhappy Rtmfq

    Dan,

    He was asking about a singular, solitary, specific bullet for his one specific 35 caliber rifle, thoroughly defined and for one singular and specific animal to be hunted.

    He was not, nor was I trying to establish a trend or to say in any way that any and all should do likewise. Or that any other caliber could or should be or not be used with any other specific bullet of any described design when hunting said animal.

    Are we clear?

    Murphy

  5. #5

    Default

    Murphy
    What were we doing before we had all the new expensive bullets did they bounce off the moose and bears, how many AK hunters were killed (eaten) becuse of bullet failure???
    DR B

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    Smile Before Premium (BP) Bullets

    Dr B,

    Good questions.

    Well, we killed moose and bears, we wounded moose and bears, and we were eaten by bears just like we are today.

    I'm sure bears have killed humans after they were wounded by said human with a gun that was;
    1. Used by someone who lacked skill in its use.
    2. Of inadequate caliber for the job at hand.
    3. Loaded with inferior ammo or bullets.

    Don't have any numbers but have read several stories in regard to such.

    Will a 35 caliber, 225 grain Sierra game king kill a moose? Probably.
    Would it be the best choice? Probably not. Do you disagree?
    IF we can get a cooperating target, (turn a little to the left) and can pick the shot at the range we want, then we can be successful with less gun and less bullet. That's true for everything. When was the last time you did it that way?

    I think if the true facts were to be told less than a handful of moose are dropped at the shot during a season in Alaska. And most of those were shot in the spine or brain. I would bet that a 243 bullet in through the ribcage will do in even the toughest of moose. There is a strong possibility that such an attempt would be a failure 95 times out of a hundred tries.

    Is it logical to say "If it worked 5 times we can do it"?

    Have you hunted with Sierra Game king bullets? Accurate go getters but all I've shot and seen shot shed the jacket and failed to exit on even small animals.

    Why handicap yourself when there is no need? The 35 whelen was the only caliber in question, and I believe that the partition is a much better choice than the game king bullet. And I think when using the whelen on moose, we should use the 250 grain.

    Why would that draw a negative reaction from anyone with any real experience hunting? And, why do so many things I say that are straight forward and specific draw so many negative comments? I've shot well over 100 animals. I've seen probably 3 times that number taken. All of this with many different calibers and bullets. I've seen what works and what doesn't work. I know many moose are taken each year with calibers and bullets I would not recommend. Also, I have listened to nine different stories from last September from people who had "trouble" getting their moose to tip over, or lost him completely, after wounding him. I believe it was one of the reasons from above, possibly more than one.

    It really doesn't matter to me what caliber or bullet a person uses for their moose, it might matter to the moose. I think I know what I need, and I'm sure I can get the job done. Someone asked and I responded with what I know and what my experience has taught me. I'll stand by my choice.

    Good shootin'.

    Murphy
    Last edited by Murphy; 06-20-2006 at 12:22.

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    Default so clear.

    Right...right...Bottom line,,,,,always choose high quality bullets,,,and dont just shoot at the animal.Shoot where its gonna count.

  8. #8

    Default Murphy, you're right arm

    Murphy, I think part of the problem is people just don't see what they're reading and respond inappropriately. All that further explanation and still it isn't really understood. I have had same problems with Sierra "hunting" bullets in a number of calibers on thin skinned game. Jacket shedding was quite regular. For target shooting I think they are top of the list. I have shot most of my moose in Alaska with a 35 Whelen, and I won't comment on calling it .35-06, which I won't recognize as acceptable, kind of like calling the .45 Colt long when there was never really a short .45 Colt.
    Except for one moose, a nice mulligan that I nailed at about 50 feet with a 3" Brenneke slug that literally knocked him off his feet! I never had a moose drop at the shot, even though they were dead on their feet. They are just so **** big! I always used the 250 grain Hornady Interlock bullet after some early testing and it truly never let me down. Big game, in my mind, for consistent reliable kills require appropriately alrge bullets. If you think about it on a basic level, that makes a lot of common sense. Perhaps that is why you get some rough reactions, the common sense thing seems to be fading slowly but surely. .35-06, Humph!

  9. #9
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    First off, I don't think that is a hot load, a whelen can push a 225 gr 2700 fps easy.

    Now to bullet performance and hence construction, it depends on where you are going to place the bullet. On a broadside heart/lung shot, a more lightly constructed bullet would likely provide more damage to the heart/lungs, and hence a quicker kill. The big question is, can you 100% rely on the a perfect broadside presentation, or might you have to contend with a quartering shot and perhaps a shoulder blade or two? In that instance, a more stoutly constructed bullet would be in order.

    If you want to stick with 225 gr, and with good bullets there is no reason not to, then a Barnes triple shock or Nosler partition will certainly do the trick. If you go up to 250 gr, and drop velocity to 2500 fps, then I really can't think of a bad bullet out there. I might even consider the Swift a-frame a bit too stout for the whelens velocity, and better matched to the 358 Norma class of rounds.

    The nice thing about the whelen is it throws enough lead and at reasonable velocties that it doesn't strain bullets as much as the faster small bores.

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    Thumbs up 35 Whelen

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H
    First off, I don't think that is a hot load, a whelen can push a 225 gr 2700 fps easy.

    The nice thing about the whelen is it throws enough lead and at reasonable velocties that it doesn't strain bullets as much as the faster small bores.

    Paul,

    Quote 1. Not always. Some guns will have trouble lifting the bolt after such a load.

    Quote 2. Profound! One of the beauties of this one.


    Also how thick is that shoulder blade? Big bones need big/tough bullets. Better to err on the side of reason. I will agree the 35 Whelen and others in that velocity range will perform quite well on just about any animal with plain Jane "standard" bullets. I think there are better "standard" bullets without paying the premium price tag. But your point is well taken, the Whelen ain't hard on bullets.

    If we could get the darn moose to cooperate we wouldn't need such big calibers or such expensive bullets!

    Good shootin'.

    Murphy

  11. #11
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    I agree the 225 sierra would not be my first choice in a whelen for moose, but if it was all I had, it wouldn't keep me from hunting them.

    If you want to launch 225's, then X bullet or partition, with 250's, hornady, speer, nosler, barnes, take your choice.

  12. #12
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 35 Whel Bullet

    I have no better bullet than the Speer 250 SP Spitzer in my Rem 7600 with IMR 4320 for Moose here in Alaska

  13. #13

    Default gamekings & moose

    I only have direct experience with gamekings in .375 and .270. In both, they blew up to the point that, though they killed what I was shooting at, I felt that I couldn't trust their future performance.

    So, when I started using the Whelen on a regular basis, I went with Hornady 250 gr rn bullets. They prove to be accurate and deadly, and I have yet to have any reason that they won't continue to perform well.

    I don't think that the (relatively) slower velocities of the Whelen make it necessary, and perhaps not even desireable, to use premium bullets.
    He fears his fate too much or his desserts are small who fears on just one touch to win or lose it all.

  14. #14

    Default

    Lots of experience with Sierras over the years, and my read is this: There is such a thing as too close (i.e., too fast). The higher the impact velocity, the more they start to come apart. Depending upon caliber, velocity, bones and more, they can turn into claymores at very close range. At longer ranges they hold together better. I still shoot the heck out of them for practice and target, but switch to Noslers for hunting moose, elk, deer, etc.

  15. #15
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Default Speer Grand Slam

    The Speer Grand Slam is a great bullet in the 35 Whelen. I killed my last moose with a pre war Griffin & Howe Mauser 35 Whelen using the Speer Grand Slam at 2450 fps. The shot was at about 75 yards and the bullet was found mushroomed perfectly under the hide on the far side after leaving about a 1" hole through the top of the heart. I've also had good luck with Grand Slams in my 30-06s and .270s.

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