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Thread: Colt New Frontier .45 LC

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    Default Colt New Frontier .45 LC

    I picked up the Second Generation Colt New Frontier that GNGs had in case along with two 3rd generation guns. All three were LC with 7 1/2" barrels and in very nice shape -the best was like new. They were asking $750; I offered and they accepted $725 which seemed to be a good deal to me. Heck, new Rugers cost almost as much and aren't near the quality. If anyone wants a nice SA check them out at GNGs - the two remaining ones were $795 and $895 if I recall correctly.

    Anyone have any experience with these guns as to what loads work well in them etc? Of course they are a target and plinking gun so my loads will be pretty mild. I have molds for several .45 bullets; if I recall the 250 gr. was the standard load back then.

    I'll try to post some pictures later.
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    They are nice guns, I've owned several of the original first gen guns,mostly turnof the century era. They are a unique piece of history I think your made a buy there. I wonder; are they stamped 45 LC or Long Colt or just 45 Colt?
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    Default caliber stamping

    My gun is stamped "Colt SAA New Frontier .45" and was made in 1964. I believe the newer ones are stamped the same way.

    I never fooled around with them much for some reason. I had an orginal Bisley and another NF but traded them of for some reason. They are certainly a part of our history and a real classic.

    I've got to load up some light .45 LC loads and hit the range this weekend.



    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    They are nice guns, I've owned several of the original first gen guns,mostly turnof the century era. They are a unique piece of history I think your made a buy there. I wonder; are they stamped 45 LC or Long Colt or just 45 Colt?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Point being.....I don't think Colt stamps their guns "45 LC" or "45 Long Colt" Just "45 Colt".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Point being.....I don't think Colt stamps their guns "45 LC" or "45 Long Colt" Just "45 Colt".
    Hear about a lot of 45LC but in my years I've never seen a real one except did see a JP Sauer/ Hawes marked 45LC
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    Good score on the NFs, Colt is bringing them back out this year

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    No one stamped their guns with "45 LC" but that is the common designation we all know and love. There were shorter versions of the .45 Colt cartridge but I don't know if there were any guns that shot them and not the .45 Long Colt. There may be some odd ball out there that shot the .45 Colt and not the Long Colt- kinda like the '73 Winchester shooting the .22 Long?

    There are other examples like 9mm Luger, 6.5 Carcarno, 7.7 Jap etc. where the guns were not stamped with common cartridge name.


    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Point being.....I don't think Colt stamps their guns "45 LC" or "45 Long Colt" Just "45 Colt".
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    There are two 45's by colt the apc and colt. S&W used a couple 45's in the same type gun 45 russian/45 S&W.
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    There were 2 or more case lengths used over the years for cartridges marked ".45 Colt". Not sure what the purpose was; I'll try and dig some of mine out and see who loaded them. As I recall the length difference is rather obvious- perhaps 3/16 or a 1/4 in or so. The shorter cartridges are not rare - I've seen a number of them over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    There are two 45's by colt the apc and colt. S&W used a couple 45's in the same type gun 45 russian/45 S&W.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    There were 2 or more case lengths used over the years for cartridges marked ".45 Colt". Not sure what the purpose was; I'll try and dig some of mine out and see who loaded them. As I recall the length difference is rather obvious- perhaps 3/16 or a 1/4 in or so. The shorter cartridges are not rare - I've seen a number of them over the years.
    This is true. While there was a short(er) 45 Colt produced for a short period of time, the 45 Colt is the 45 Colt. The short ones could be referred to as the "short 45 Colt'" vs the "long" or just plain "45 Colt"

    Here's an article with a little explanation, although not definitive.
    http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ta...short_colt.htm

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    The S&W Schofield revolver was chambered for the 45 S&W. That case is shorter than the 45 Colt. S&W ammo can be shot in the 45 Colt chamber but not vice versa. The 45 Colt was the long 45 the S&W was the short 45. I have an original Schofield, made in 1888. It isn't in shootable shape but it is marked 45 S&W cartridge. The long 45 Colt cartridge will not go in the cylinder. I have a 1902 Bisley frame Colt that is stamped "45 Colt". I shoot it with the 45 S&W brass (Starline) and Power Pistol powder. Makes a very clean mild load in that shorter case. I like these old historical revolvers.
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    Default .45 Short and Long Colt

    I think we are almost there.

    I dug thru some of my cartridge collection and found specimens of both short and long .45 Colt cartridges manufactured by WRA as well as an old .45 S&W cartridge. The SHORT version of the .45 Colt cartridge is basically the same as the .45 S&W but the shorter version is marked ".45 Colt" - NOT 45 S&W. Since the shorter cartridge is marked the same as the longer cartridge (we now know as the 45 LC) the .45 Long Colt designation must have born to distinguish the two identically marked "45 Colt" cartridges. I'll have to look and see how the old boxes were marked

    Since Colt guns could shoot either so .45 Colt would have beeen sufficent markings on the guns.

    Just for grins I tried a FA 2 11 headstamped round it my New Frontier. I was surprised to find the case is too long - maybe it is a 45 extra long Colt?


    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    The S&W Schofield revolver was chambered for the 45 S&W. That case is shorter than the 45 Colt. S&W ammo can be shot in the 45 Colt chamber but not vice versa. The 45 Colt was the long 45 the S&W was the short 45. I have an original Schofield, made in 1888. It isn't in shootable shape but it is marked 45 S&W cartridge. The long 45 Colt cartridge will not go in the cylinder. I have a 1902 Bisley frame Colt that is stamped "45 Colt". I shoot it with the 45 S&W brass (Starline) and Power Pistol powder. Makes a very clean mild load in that shorter case. I like these old historical revolvers.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    I'm not going to argue this point. Ammo and guns are two different things. Let me know when you see a gun marked 45 Short Colt or one marked 45 Long Colt.

    Other than new Rugers or such.

    There was a Canadian contract for the 1917 Colt revolver and some were made in 45 (short) Colt. These guns were stamped 45 Colt and RCMP or some such. They shot a cartridge about 1/10 inch shorter than the 45 long Colt we know today, not exact dims of the 45 Schofield. There were many revolvers to shoot many different rounds of 45 Caliber including the 45 Auto Rimmed that ware marked 45 Gov't. It would shoot 45 ACP with clips. Also the 455 Webley guns were converted to take a 45 Colt cartridge.

    The 45 (long) Colt,
    The 45 Schofield,
    The 45 (short) Colt?,
    The 45 ACP and
    The 45 Auto Rimmed Were all at one time designated 45 Gov't.....That was the buyer.

    I've seen guns made for Government contract in all these calibers....none were ever marked 45 Short or 45 Long anything.. Ammo is obviously something else. Also the original dimensions of the 45 (long) Colt cartridge in its black powder form were different when, after about 1910, cartridge companies changed dims and started making smokeless loads.
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    The terms “short” and “long” Colt in 45 caliber came from slang aided by the established terms in smaller calibers I believe.

    The Army had both Schofields and Colts at the same time and ammo became an issue when a mix up sent .45 Colt ammo to guys armed with Schofields, the ammo was useless to them. The .45 Schofield ammo would work in the Colt but not well due to something with the rim. So in 1878 and all government contract 45 Colt rounds had a 1.1" case length, exactly like the Schofield round. The shorter .45 Colt type ammo, with the slightly smaller Colt rim and shorter Schofield worked fine in both guns. Thus we had .45 Colt shorter ammo but no short gun.
    Here in original 45 Colt next to 45 Colt Government/Army
    45Colt-45ColtGovt.JPG
    So in the civilian world there was then “45 Colt Government/Army” ammo or “45 Colt” ammo, one is long and one is short so that is what they began to be called. When someone walked into a drygoods shop . . . “Give me a box of them there 45 Colt” Yes sir, would you like the long or short ones? And now 45LC is a common term for what has always been just 45 Colt.

    A .45 Colt chamber in a gun is and always has been a .45 Colt, there is only one but we get some brass head stamped .45LC, some off brand guns stamped .45 Colt long/ 45LC and so on. So to me all is an expectable name to call the great ole 45 Colt. Like calling a 1911 magazine a clip, what does it really matter since we all know what is meant by the slang use of the trem "clip" we know what they are saying.

    Now some hear 45 Colt and think 1911, this one is incorrect as the 1911 cartridge is .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) and a completely different thing than 45 Colt. I understand the confusion but while a 1911 is a .45 and bears Colt as part of its chambering name it’s not a 45 Colt.
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    Its kind of like folks saying clip when in fact they mean magazine.Many think the word pistol is for semi auto and not revolvers or single shots. Of course we then get into buffalo/bison,if we misuse a word long enough it becomes fact. Now lets all have a fag and relax
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    Will I'm all out, can I bum a fag?
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    That is a good history of the orginal confusion with the inside primed cases. Like most military cartridges those rounds were not stamped as to caliber although I would guess the boxes were labeled as the intended weapon.

    Then the cartridge manufacturers continued the confusion by marking both the longer .45 and the shorter .45 S&W as "45 Colt". This continued late into the 20th century as the WRA rounds I have appear to have been made in the 20s or 30s after Winchester dropped the "W" on the primers. During the same period we had short and long versions of a number of a number of common rimfire and centerfire cartridges like the .22 and .32 RFs and the short and long .32 S&W centerfires. Many of these guns were not marked either so the name went with the cartridge rather than the gun.

    I have no problem with the .45 LC label/name and will continue to use it to postively avoid any confusion! Why change a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    The terms “short” and “long” Colt in 45 caliber came from slang aided by the established terms in smaller calibers I believe.

    The Army had both Schofields and Colts at the same time and ammo became an issue when a mix up sent .45 Colt ammo to guys armed with Schofields, the ammo was useless to them. The .45 Schofield ammo would work in the Colt but not well due to something with the rim. So in 1878 and all government contract 45 Colt rounds had a 1.1" case length, exactly like the Schofield round. The shorter .45 Colt type ammo, with the slightly smaller Colt rim and shorter Schofield worked fine in both guns. Thus we had .45 Colt shorter ammo but no short gun.
    So in the civilian world there was then “45 Colt Government/Army” ammo or “45 Colt” ammo, one is long and one is short so that is what they began to be called. When someone walked into a drygoods shop . . . “Give me a box of them there 45 Colt” Yes sir, would you like the long or short ones? And now 45LC is a common term for what has always been just 45 Colt.

    A .45 Colt chamber in a gun is and always has been a .45 Colt, there is only one but we get some brass head stamped .45LC, some off brand guns stamped .45 Colt long/ 45LC and so on. So to me all is an expectable name to call the great ole 45 Colt. Like calling a 1911 magazine a clip, what does it really matter since we all know what is meant by the slang use of the trem "clip" we know what they are saying.

    Now some hear 45 Colt and think 1911, this one is incorrect as the 1911 cartridge is .45 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) and a completely different thing than 45 Colt. I understand the confusion but while a 1911 is a .45 and bears Colt as part of its chambering name it’s not a 45 Colt.
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    Fin, it's friggin colt.
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    Yes we must except slang hense the teaching of Ebonics,ZUP
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    Default Slang or ??

    Since the "Long Colt" designation has apparently been used for over a 100 years one could hardly call it slang - it has become a part of the common useage and fills a real need for those that aren't as firearm literate. Picking up the term by Ruger will also strenthen the acceptance of the caliber designation.

    When I refer to the ".45 LC" or ".45 Long Colt" it simply removes any doubt and confusion- I really don't understand all the fuss!


    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Yes we must except slang hense the teaching of Ebonics,ZUP
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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