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Thread: Hornady LeverEvolution vs. Buffalo Bore

  1. #1

    Default Hornady LeverEvolution vs. Buffalo Bore

    I've been checking up on buff bore ammo and also the hornady in .45/70. Are the LeverEvolution rounds loaded with a bullet similar to the SST? Are they going to be tough enough for Grizz? The Hornady is 325 gr and the buff bore I was looking at were the 350 gr JFN. How do you think they compare?

  2. #2

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    I have shot many rounds of Buffalo Bore ammo through my .45-70 Guide Gun without the slightest problem, and accurate, too. I have not shot any of the LeverEvolution ammo, so I can't give any thoughts on it. Sounds good, tho.

    I had a bad experience with a Hornady bullet some years ago, and I am still wary of Hornady bullets. However, I understand they have really improved in the last 15 years or so. (I shot a brown bear with a Hornady bullet out of a .375 H&H, and the bullet exploded just under the hide, putting me and my hunting partner in a dire situation).

    Good bullets loaded stout in a .45-70 will take any animal in North America. Just don't try to make it a .458 Winchester Magnum round. Love my .45-70.......
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

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    Thumbs up LeverEvolution 45-70

    I have the same question about the toughness of the Hornady LeverEvolution bullet (325 grain in 45-70). I've shot a few boxes through my 1895, and it shoots very well - accurate and about as flat shooting/long range as a 45-70 gets. Recoil feels pretty stout - about the same as other +P loadings. It really seems to be a great product.

    Take a look at the Hornady LeverEvolution website for hunting testimonials. They shot plenty of bison and other big game with these rounds with impressive results. I don't think they're making up these stories, but I also don't think they would publish failures either.

    I'd be curious to hear the results anyone has had on real game.

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    Default More LeverEvolution vs. Buffalo Bore Thoughts

    Seaniffd -

    Here's the Hornady LE tesitmonial site: http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=290

    I did some more thinking about your question. Here's my $.02:

    I would keep in mind that the main advantage of the .45-70 is it's ability to launch big heavy slugs (400+ grains) at around 1900 - 2000 fps. With a blunt hard cast lead bullet, it's penetration and killing ability are way out of proportion to what the energy/ballistics figures may indicate. Such a bullet will plow a straight line through heavy hide, muscle, and bone with a minimum of expansion or deformation. This type of bullet will not produce the unhappy situation Hawken54 experienced! Hey, at .458 caliber, it's already expanded. Within 100 yds, we're talking serious "whompability" here (a term coined by another Forum member).

    The main disadvatage of the .45-70 is a rainbow-like trajectory, albeit with very good accuracy. This is where to LeverEvolution really shines. Hornady ballistics tables indicate the 45-70 round (2050 fps/3032 ft lbs at muzzle) zeroed at +3 inches at 100 yds will drop to -4.1 inches at 200 yds. I think this would make a deadly moose/elk/black bear round out to around 200 yds. By comparison, a 400-500 grain bullet at +P velocity will have about double the drop at 200 yds. However, the terminal performance and toughness of the bullet remains to be proven.

    As an interesting note, Cabelas is now offering a Lever Action 3-9 power scope with the reticle specially calibrated for the LeverEvolution ammo, showing the exact drop at 100, 200 and 300 yards. They have models for the 30-30, 444, and 45-70. It sells for around $100, so don't expect premium scope quality.

    For hunting Brownies with the 45-70, I would personally use the Buffalo Bore load 8A (430 grain, hard cast lead gas check, 1925 fps/3537 ft lbs at the muzzle, when zeroed at 100 yds shows 11 inch drop at 200 yds). One could use a comparable hand load or Garrett cartridge. On such a big tough animal, why use a 350 grain bullet when you could use a 430 grainer? This is a proven combination. Would you shoot a griz beyond 100 yds? I personally wouldn't, and I bet most Alaskan hunters would agree with me. Bottom line is this, within 100 yds you really can't beat this load for big dangerous game.

    I'd be interested to hear any other opinions on this topic. Happy hunting!

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    I would say if your mind is made up to only chose between the two, I would chose the buffalo bore.

    If your open to suggestions I would say go heavier.

    If your stuck on buffalo bore go for the 430.

    If you wanna try something different than all other .45-70 loads then try the Garrett Hammerhead 540 grain Super hard cast gas checked.

    But only if you got a good Marlin.

    http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

    jedi

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    Member KRS's Avatar
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    Balistics are soooo much better on the Hornady offering. Heaver is better (so they say), but you've still gotta get the bullet to the animal in an accurate manner.

    I would have to say shoot them both and then YOU tell US

  7. #7

    Default 540g?!?

    Why in the world would anyone hunting game in North America want a 540g bullet, were not hunting elephant. That 540g cast bullet could penetrate a 10ft brown bear length wise and kill a caribou behind it. I would not go higher than 400g in the 45-70, there are too many negatives in trajectory with no real benefits on North American game.

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    Talking better question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie1 View Post
    Why in the world would anyone hunting game in North America want a 540g bullet, were not hunting elephant. That 540g cast bullet could penetrate a 10ft brown bear length wise and kill a caribou behind it. I would not go higher than 400g in the 45-70, there are too many negatives in trajectory with no real benefits on North American game.
    Better safe than sorry I always say.

    A better question would be why would anyone shoot a Grizz with a little ole 325grain ballistic tip clone?(That has a poor sectional density for DG)

    suicide by bear I guess.

    Heck, they may even work once or twice.....then you get that "everything goes wrong" scenario and get a free digestive track tour from the inside like treadwell.

    jedi.

  9. #9

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    Noslar Ballistic bullets have excellent performance on game at moderate velocities and Hornady SST bullets are similar, the leverevolution bullet 325g neither. Sectional density is less crucial as one moves up in bore size. The magical .250 sectional density threshold in the .308 caliber is not as crucial in a 458 bore.

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    Default SD formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie1 View Post
    Noslar Ballistic bullets have excellent performance on game at moderate velocities and Hornady SST bullets are similar, the leverevolution bullet 325g neither. Sectional density is less crucial as one moves up in bore size. The magical .250 sectional density threshold in the .308 caliber is not as crucial in a 458 bore.
    Actually SD is very important.

    It is relevant across all bore sizes and weights.

    the higher the SD the higher the penetration with all else the same.(velocity,construction etc.)

    Basically the leverloution is a soft core hollow point which is not at all good for penetration versus a solid hardcast or softpoint mantle or solid copper like the X for a good penetrating HP.

    Probably a great round (hornady lever..)for whitetail or caribou....

    Also I find .250 a marginal SD...I like stuff that starts in the .3's

    jedi
    Last edited by null20071; 03-03-2007 at 10:02.

  11. #11

    Default .45-70

    The .45-70 is one of those cartridges that performs all out of context with it's paper ballistics. On paper, it sucks, but in real life, it is a fierce killer.

    I am concerned about the proper speed of the bullets, but not as concerned about the same things I would be in a smaller caliber, such as sectional density. Yes, it is important, but no so much in the .45-70 with good bullets. I also personally would not go much over the 430 grain bullets in the .45-70 for hunting, as it wasn't designed to handle them well. These weight bullets are great in a .450 Marlin or .458 WM, but not so good in the .45-70.

    Don't get me wrong, they will kill with authority, but the trajectory of these heavy bullets render it to a very short range weapon with any real accuracy.

    I shoot from 350 grain to the 450 grain bullets (mostly handloads), and have never had any animal I have hit with any of them not drop dead. A well constructed bullet is crucial for the big and dangerous game. Leave those hollowpoint 300 grainers on the shelf, unless you are hunting whitetail deer or some other easy to kill small animal. They expand too quickly in large animals.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    either bullet will work fine for brown bear, i would prefer a bullet desgined for maximaum weight retention, ballistic tips are not high on my list of brown bear bullets, while they work great on other game, other game is not built like a brown bear.
    one comment i remember was a heavey hard cast bullet would travel lenghtwise thru a 10 foot brown bear and kill the caribou behind hit...umm i'm gonna vote no on that one. i've never seen a bullet enter a 10 foot bear from teh front and exit it from the rear nor have i seen a 10 foot bear near a caribou.
    heavy for the caliber bullets are great, theres a fine line of balance for speed/weight of any given caliber. heavy bullets going slower tend to penetrate deeper on the game i've seen, light fast bullets slow to quickly, limiting their penetration. unless you think a bullet that don't exit adn expends all its engery is good...not gonna help though if you only penetrate a foot or so.
    Go heavy and go deep. Imagine getting hit in the guts with a pool ball going 30mhp, then imagine getting hit with a whiffle ball going 50mph...drastic ends of comparison, but roughly the same diameter, just different weight and speed. i'd much rather get hit with the wiffle ball, so i'm gonna be tossing the pool ball back at the bear...i would recommend you do the same.
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  13. #13

    Default 10 foot bears

    I’ve see it! I swear I have!
    Brwnbr, I was just being facetious to exemplify a point that a 540g bullet was over kill, and not needed. It actually a hindrance because of it's trajectory.

    Does my 30-06 make my butt look not big enough?

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    overkill? i wasn't aware you could kill a brown bear too dead...i'll be danged!
    sure the trajectory is about like a potato gun but its still a good round for the bears. no gun shoots "flat" some just shooter flatER than others thats why we practice. i prefer heavy for the caliber bullets, getting whatever i can outa my gun i'm hanging on to, if i wanted lighter and faster i'd go with an unltra mag of some sort but i haven't been impressed with those guns on bears, they work ya but slower heavier bullets apear to work slightly better, more results anyway.
    whatever any of thats worth, bottom line whatever you holding onto at the time if your hunting big game will probably work just fine if EVERYTHING goes just right.
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    Default Brownies...

    For brownies, I'll have a .340 Weatherby in my hand... delivering about 2.25 tons of energy! Just have to make sure you have the right bullet.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    overkill? i wasn't aware you could kill a brown bear too dead...i'll be danged!
    sure the trajectory is about like a potato gun but its still a good round for the bears. no gun shoots "flat" some just shooter flatER than others thats why we practice. i prefer heavy for the caliber bullets, getting whatever i can outa my gun i'm hanging on to, if i wanted lighter and faster i'd go with an unltra mag of some sort but i haven't been impressed with those guns on bears, they work ya but slower heavier bullets apear to work slightly better, more results anyway.
    whatever any of thats worth, bottom line whatever you holding onto at the time if your hunting big game will probably work just fine if EVERYTHING goes just right.

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    If hunting brown bear as dangerous game trajectory don't matter. Go with BB,Garret or DT not hornady L/E.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Default

    What bullets were used before all these high performance copper jacketed titanium re-enforced gizmoes came about? You can kill a bear with a bow as long as you hit him where you're supposed to. How many Kodiak bears have fallen to the good ole Core-Lokt? Just don't get stupid and try to kill him with a buthole shot at 500yds. Whatever round you're gun likes best will do the job.

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    Default Hornady LeverEvolution vs. Buffalo Bore

    Both the LE325gr and BB425grWFN shoot nicely from my GG.

    I do believe Stid2677s son took a blackie this spring with the 325FTX and it punched a nice sized hole though not from a lever action nor a brown bear.

    Given both are non magnums, I'd go for the BB since it has more ass.

    Ill be chasing moose with the 405gr Buffalo Bore.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Member Ryan J's Avatar
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    I would guess in the past 5 1/2 years he's either gotten the answer he needed or sold the rifle.

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    Default Hornady LeverEvolution vs. Buffalo Bore

    Lol yeah I noticed that. Grave diggin!!
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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