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Thread: CC Question

  1. #1
    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    Default CC Question

    I know the CC question has been beat to death, but I have a couple of questions.

    1 - Can a private business restrict CC on their premise at their own discretion.

    2 - Please direct me to where I can find where CC is not allowed, by law. Like Banks, Bars, Government Buildings, or what ever.

    Thanks Dan
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    http://www.dps.state.ak.us/statewide...and%20Regs.pdf

    Here you go, hope this helps. You can carry w/in banks BTW.

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    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    Okay got part of my questions answered. Also do not want a CC Permit, just info on CC


    Could not find anything on private business restricting CC at their discretion.

    It only talked about CC at schools/day care, where liquor is consumed (the way I read this part is you can CC in a liquor store, sales only) or on a persons private property or in their house (you can CC here, but have to tell legal owner over 21 YOA) I could not find any other talk about restricted CC locations. I thought there also was a restriction at Hospitals, but did not see it, I know our local hospital has a sign up "No Gun". This here goes back to my first question.

    After reading the statute, it is mostly talking about Permitted Carry, is there a place that talks more about unpermitted carry?

    As usual I do not know how a judge or lawyer can interpret the statute with out more than one opinion. I guess it would have to do a lot with court ruling on each statute and how high a court that ruling came from.
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    Member badger1's Avatar
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    Permitted carry= unpermitted carry, the law's the law, same/same. People like getting the permits because of reciprocity/speeding background checks(don't think it applies anymore w/instant check)/demonstrates(to an officer you may come into contact with) that you have attained proficiency and knowledge of applicable laws/personal satisfaction.

    It's not private property, it's specifically the house, apartment, truck camper, tent, yurt or lean-to that is a residence. ie: not the front yard- its when you cross the threshold @ the front door you need permission from an adult resident, not necessarily the owner.

    A private business has a right to put up whatever sign they like, it's their property. You have a right to carry concealed, it's your life. If they see your pistol, 1) you're doin' it wrong 2)they have every right to ask you to leave and not come back- it's private property right? You haven't broken any law unless you refuse to leave when told- that's trespass.

    Hospital- they got signs all over no tobacco, but I don't think I've ever been in there w/out a big old chaw of Cope, never anything said about it I bet my $$$$$ means more to them than some BS policy that was probably foisted on them(employees) that they probably were opposed to from day1.

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    Private property owners have the right to deny CC on their property. I'm not sure what the state laws are as far as signage and notification or if they have been tested yet. A store would have to post obvious signs at all entrances, but then they would have to catch you carrying and they'd just ask you to leave. That is all within their rights. As far as employers go, they can say in their employee hand books that you can't carry in your vehicle or person, but that is more a lawyer disclaimer thank anything else. You just have to remember that in Alaska you can be let go for any reason or no reason at all, so it's really up to you.

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    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    badger I'm probably reading it wrong, but on page 38 of the link you gave me, it says property owned or leased by the owner (or words to that affect) of the house. It also says talks about if you are there for legal hunting. Am I not reading this right. It seems like the more I try to figure this stuff out the more confused I get. I know this is splitting hairs on interpretation, just curious and not trying to start an argument as I do not know.
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    Everything Badger said is correct. As for hospitals, there was a husband-wife doctor couple in my CCW class, and they both said that almost half of the doctors at Fairbanks Memorial carry while at work.

  8. #8

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    I was told when I received my ccw permit, that if a business posted a sign of no concealed carry or no guns, like the hospital, then you couldn't carry. With that being said, that would mean that the doctors in Fairbanks are breaking the law provided of course the hospital has signs posted.

    Also, was told in class that State laws trumped city laws. In other words, if a city made an ordinance of no guns or concealed carry, that is a no no due to the fact the state law says you can. Here in Ketchikan it is posted on the citys web site...even though it shouldn't be.

    Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

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    If you disobey a sign, it's not against the law. If, however, an employee of a business asks you to leave and you refuse, then you can be arrested for criminal trespass (but not for a firearms violation). For example, UAF has signs all over campus saying "No Firearms Allowed," however, the Chief of the UAF Police Department (who was the instructor for the required Law Enforcement portion of my CCW class) explicitly told us that those signs alone are in no way legally binding.

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    Member S.B.'s Avatar
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    Not an answer but a comment. If you can and do restrict CC on your property, aren't you axcepting full responsibility for others personal safety, while on your property? Imagine this happening on your property: Visitor comes to your door and knowing you restrict his rights to carry concealed on your property, leaves his weapon of choice in his car. Bad guy or guys cone in and with no regards to anyone else start firing for whatever reason not following the law(like bad guys do). Visistor is hit by whatever number of rounds. What's the legal responsiblilty to this visitor would you have?
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfletcher View Post
    I was told when I received my ccw permit, that if a business posted a sign of no concealed carry or no guns, like the hospital, then you couldn't carry. With that being said, that would mean that the doctors in Fairbanks are breaking the law provided of course the hospital has signs posted.
    Proper signs used to have specific legal implications. Now they don't. If that was the last time you went over the law, it's time to read the current law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
    Not an answer but a comment. If you can and do restrict CC on your property, aren't you axcepting full responsibility for others personal safety, while on your property? Imagine this happening on your property: Visitor comes to your door and knowing you restrict his rights to carry concealed on your property, leaves his weapon of choice in his car. Bad guy or guys cone in and with no regards to anyone else start firing for whatever reason not following the law(like bad guys do). Visistor is hit by whatever number of rounds. What's the legal responsiblilty to this visitor would you have?
    Steve
    I have thought about that for years also, the criminals donít care about signs so it makes anyplace with a sign the best place for them to do an armed robbery! Arizona has also thought of that and is working on a law saying stores and such have the right to keep guns out but if they do then they assume responsibility for the people they let in. I guess they would then need security in place like a court house to be able to keep guns out if they want to and are open to the public. So Iím waiting to see how that all shakes out.

    Couple years ago I went to see the fights at the Sully with a bunch of people my wife works with. They were wanding people and doing a poor job of it but I put my 357 in the car so they wouldnít have a fit. Inside I was regretting going and thinking if someone catches a bullet from a gun they missed or stabbed by a knife they missed there would sure be litigation because they had definitely assumed responsibility for everybodyís safety by removing self defense tools from us like that.
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    If you are carrying on private property, and you are asked to leave, then you need to leave the private property immediately or it can be criminal trespass. If you are carrying and intoxicated and refuse to leave, then it is both criminal trespass and misconduct involving weapons 3 (the class C felony version).

    You also must notify law enforcement officers that you're carrying.

    If "concealed carry" really means CONCEALED, then you should never get asked to leave because nobody will know it is there. Only if a business owner has a metal detector or a police officer stationed at the front door will they ever know. Don't cause any scenes or incidents and be responsible and there should be no trouble.

    Most of the laws you want can be found in the Misconduct Involving Weapons statutes:
    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/.../Chapter61.htm

    The one big question right now is the UAA campus. I believe there is a lawsuit pending to see if their signs carry the force of law. Unless you want to be a test case it might just be wisest to honor the signs there for now until it gets sorted out. Personally, I feel that they are invalid and have no more force of law behind them than a sign at the movie theater or mall, but we'll see what the courts say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nittanytbone View Post
    If you are carrying on private property, and you are asked to leave, then you need to leave the private property immediately or it can be criminal trespass. If you are carrying and intoxicated and refuse to leave, then it is both criminal trespass and misconduct involving weapons 3 (the class C felony version).

    You also must notify law enforcement officers that you're carrying.

    If "concealed carry" really means CONCEALED, then you should never get asked to leave because nobody will know it is there. Only if a business owner has a metal detector or a police officer stationed at the front door will they ever know. Don't cause any scenes or incidents and be responsible and there should be no trouble.

    Most of the laws you want can be found in the Misconduct Involving Weapons statutes:
    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/.../Chapter61.htm

    The one big question right now is the UAA campus. I believe there is a lawsuit pending to see if their signs carry the force of law. Unless you want to be a test case it might just be wisest to honor the signs there for now until it gets sorted out. Personally, I feel that they are invalid and have no more force of law behind them than a sign at the movie theater or mall, but we'll see what the courts say.
    Wheww, did this reply confuse the question at hand, more by interjecting public drunkedness and trespassing?
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
    Wheww, did this reply confuse the question at hand, more by interjecting public drunkedness and trespassing?
    Steve
    The original question was:
    1 - Can a private business restrict CC on their premise at their own discretion.

    The answer is, "Kind of -- primarily via the criminal trespassing statute." Criminal trespassing is a misdemeanor property offense.

    I think it is worth pointing out that there are some circumstances where it can become a felony under the Misconduct Involving Weapons statutes, especially as "intoxicated" is not well defined for purposes of MIW. A felony weapons charge is pretty darn serious!

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