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Thread: Documented Vessel vs State Registration?

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    Default Documented Vessel vs State Registration?

    My new to me boat is now a federally documented vessel as it was a requirement to show the lien the bank has on it. From what I can tell I now have to remove my AK numbers as they are no longer valid. What else do I have to do? I did some reading online and I think I have to put the name of the boat and home port on it as well as carry a copy of the documentation with me.. anything else I have to do? and any links to more info would sure help.

    John
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

    Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. -- Hunter S. Thompson

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    I found most of my answers here www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/default.asp

    The only problem I have now is that I don't yet have the documentation papers from the USCG and I still have AK numbers. The AK numbers are not registered to me and I was not planning on doing that as they have to be removed as soon as I get the USCG Doc. papers. My boat is in limbo I guess.
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

    Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. -- Hunter S. Thompson

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    2-3 months to get your document. Just got mine, and I mailed the app in Jan.

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    JR2 I had my boat was state registered too, until I borrowed money on it Worst thing I ever did because they made me document the vessel. Theres a lot more than meet the eye w/ a documented vessel. When I had my CG safety exam the officer said since I am documented I have to maintain a safety log, that shows when I service my safety equipment. Not only that but I have to get rid of hte cursive letters on my boat name and they have to be block letters. plus its mandatory to have the name on the bow. I'm very remorseful I'm documented. Oh and did I mention Barack Hussein Obama can confiscate our documented vessels anytime he has a lame brained notion? Grrrrr Thats it I'm loading clips I'm pissed!





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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    I wish I did not have to do it, but it was necessary to get my loan. Stupid Alaska does not have titles on boats, if they did it would not be an issue. The name is no problem as planned on doing that anyway. Mine is a rec vessel only so there are different rules from what I can tell. I think I only need the name and home port on the back of the boat, not sure about the safety log. No big deal as for rec boating not much safety equipment needs maintaining. I have a family friend that is in the CG so I am going to talk to him.

    As for getting the paperwork, it would appear from the USCG website that the marine mortgages apps that are processing now where submitted in Sept 10.... I may have a long time to wait. I need to get with my bank and see what they have to say. They insisted on doing all that paperwork and probably screwed it up anyway.
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

    Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. -- Hunter S. Thompson

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Yeah the banks use some contractor called Alaska Marine Documentation---i'll reserve my opinion of the over bearing woman that runs the joint other than the fact she needs a good old fashioned Hank jr style attitude adjustment





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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    I think you may need to have names on both sides of the bow, as well as on the stern, where you have the home port also.
    supposed to be "readable" from a distance, but the block lettering is never enforced, as long as it's readable. probably supposed to be 1" thick lettering and a certain height, but just look around at the commercial vessels, plenty of room for cool lettering with style.

    Shouldn't be any more complicated than that, ask your local CG Marine safety detachment for specifics, but I think the safety drill logs are probably for commercially used vessels. That's easy to do anyway, but if you're boarded with a documented vessel and out sport cruising around I doubt they'll be going crazy legal on ya.
    "Hey those letters aren't big enough,"...... they just need to see who you are from all angles.

    For what it's worth, in aftersite, I think the bank may be wrong on that, I had a $380,000 vessel built in Canada,
    had to be State registered as it was a foreign build, so could not be a US Documented vessel and used commercially,
    and it was not a problem for the bank I was dealing with at all.

    AK numbers and regis should be plenty legal and definitive for the bank. They do like to power trip a bit tho

    For anyone else needing to do this, Kim Marine Documentation in Seattle will get your papers to you in a matter of days, (for a small fee of course)
    and be careful running around without your papers on board, that's a BIG fine in the USCG's eyes
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member bhollis's Avatar
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    For recreational vessels, there's no requirement to mark the name on the bows. Putting the name and hailing port on the stern is sufficient. But the official number does need to be "permanently affixed" somewhere in the interior. Never heard of a requirement for a safety log on a recreational documented vessel. Here's a quote from the CG's vessel documentation center:

    HOW DO I MARK MY VESSEL?

    The official number assigned to documented vessels, preceded by the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least three inches high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.
    The name and hailing port of a recreational vessel must be marked together on some clearly visible exterior part of the hull. The vessel name of a commercial vessel must also be marked on the port and starboard bow and the vessel name and the hailing port must also be marked on the stern. All markings may be made by any means and materials that result in durable markings and must be at least four inches in height, made in clearly legible letters of the Latin alphabet or Arabic or Roman numerals. The "hailing port" must include both a place and a State, Territory, or possession of in the United States. The state may be abbreviated.

    And here's a link to some FAQs on documented vessels:
    http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#11

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    Alaska USA Credit Union wanted me to document my 27' SS Pilothouse for the loan also. It pissed me off that I was being made to spend a chunk of change to document a small trailer-able boat. I went to Credit Union 1, where they did not make me document it, and saved almost 1% on the interest rate. Screw em'!

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    Member spoiled one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundfisher View Post
    Alaska USA Credit Union wanted me to document my 27' SS Pilothouse for the loan also. It pissed me off that I was being made to spend a chunk of change to document a small trailer-able boat. I went to Credit Union 1, where they did not make me document it, and saved almost 1% on the interest rate. Screw em'!
    Interesting. CU1 had me document my boat. I hate the AK numbers anyway, so screw them! The initial documentation fee was more than state registration, but I am pretty certain that my yearly dues are less. It isn't enough to make me think that I should have those silly numbers on my boat.
    Spending my kids' inheritance with them, one adventure at a time.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    I think you may need to have names on both sides of the bow, as well as on the stern, where you have the home port also.
    supposed to be "readable" from a distance, but the block lettering is never enforced, as long as it's readable. probably supposed to be 1" thick lettering and a certain height, but just look around at the commercial vessels, plenty of room for cool lettering with style.

    Shouldn't be any more complicated than that, ask your local CG Marine safety detachment for specifics, but I think the safety drill logs are probably for commercially used vessels. That's easy to do anyway, but if you're boarded with a documented vessel and out sport cruising around I doubt they'll be going crazy legal on ya.
    "Hey those letters aren't big enough,"...... they just need to see who you are from all angles.

    For what it's worth, in aftersite, I think the bank may be wrong on that, I had a $380,000 vessel built in Canada,
    had to be State registered as it was a foreign build, so could not be a US Documented vessel and used commercially,
    and it was not a problem for the bank I was dealing with at all.

    AK numbers and regis should be plenty legal and definitive for the bank. They do like to power trip a bit tho

    For anyone else needing to do this, Kim Marine Documentation in Seattle will get your papers to you in a matter of days, (for a small fee of course)
    and be careful running around without your papers on board, that's a BIG fine in the USCG's eyes
    That's really interesting. My big boat is foreign built, so that gal at the USCG documentation center told me that i couldn't do anything commercially out of it. Then the local boyz around here told me that Kim Marine can make anything happen, if pay them the $500 fee, and $1800 to get it ad measured.. Do you think I could undocument it, register it with the state, and then get my ADFG numbers for commercial?

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    That's really interesting. My big boat is foreign built, so that gal at the USCG documentation center told me that i couldn't do anything commercially out of it. Then the local boyz around here told me that Kim Marine can make anything happen, if pay them the $500 fee, and $1800 to get it ad measured.. Do you think I could undocument it, register it with the state, and then get my ADFG numbers for commercial?
    Yes, it is definitely a possiblity, try calling Kim Marine, to ask about it, as that guy is Extremely Knowledgeable on all the details and a pretty nice guy to deal with also.

    Admeasuring is basically coming up with an internal cargo space of less than 5 net tons, which is under the requirement for US Documentation.
    Then you register it as a State Vessel and you are good to go for commercial use in the states.

    Sometimes it takes some rearranging of the fishhold space to make it that small, but often, like for your 40 some footer(?), it is just a matter of getting an official admeasurement and you'll find it will comes in under 5 ton

    Then it's just paperwork from there, but Kim is the guy to have do it, worth what he charges, as he knows Everybody in the Govt system, everything comes easy. You'd want to make sure all the T's are crossed, and he'll get that done right.
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    To registar a foreign built boat for commercial use I think you have to get awavier from the Coast Guard. I am not sure what act covers it may be the Jones Act.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    If your vessel is under 5 net tons, the USCG will say "It doesn't need to be documented, or maybe Can't be" and that is the end of their dealings with it. No waver, just the fact that you don't need to document it if that small, for commercial use.
    And it is the Jones act that requires All Commercial Marine Vessels to be US built, anything over 5 net tons

    Then if you want to use it for commercial fishing, you go to the state with your admeasurement papers proving it is under 5 tons (and again, that is an internal hold space measurement, has nothing to do with Gross tonnage or any actual weight of vessel numbers, it is a square footage inside the fish hold number)
    and the state will the give you state registration numbers, post those on the outside of hull, and apply for all your Comm Fish regis cards etc.
    That's my experience, USCG will want nothing to do with small vessels, as of year 2000 anyway, maybe it is changing now, and banks are requiring the USCG documentation(?)
    I only mentioned the value of my Canadian built vessel to emphasize that we were not wondering when we went ahead on that, had full approval of the process with Farm Credit Services, a huge Commercial Fishing Lender in Seattle. They know Kim Marine well, there, for all the dealings with this issue on Canadian built vessels over the years.

    My experiences are with a Dedicated Commercial Fishing vessel also by the way, so not sure if things are different for Recreational
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    After speaking with someone at the GC office in Anchorage my problems are solved. I am going to register it in my name and keep my AK numbers until my Documentation arrives. Once it arrives I can take the AK numbers off the boat and put the required stuff on and I will be legal.

    The only problem now is that the moron at the bank put Eagle River AK as my home port. Now I have to fill out another form and get permission from my lender to change the port of registration with the CG... ahhhhh. Going to wait to do that until I get the papers from the CG. At the rate they process this stuff I will have it all sorted out by this time next year...
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

    Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. -- Hunter S. Thompson

  16. #16

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    I have a Kingfisher 2825 also. I had a loan on it from Wells Fargo in 2006. I remember some discussion on documentation at the time, but ended up not necessary. I have Alaska numbers on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR2 View Post
    After speaking with someone at the GC office in Anchorage my problems are solved. I am going to register it in my name and keep my AK numbers until my Documentation arrives. Once it arrives I can take the AK numbers off the boat and put the required stuff on and I will be legal.

    The only problem now is that the moron at the bank put Eagle River AK as my home port. Now I have to fill out another form and get permission from my lender to change the port of registration with the CG... ahhhhh. Going to wait to do that until I get the papers from the CG. At the rate they process this stuff I will have it all sorted out by this time next year...
    You shouldn't need to change hailing port, unless you want to. My documented vessel's hailing port is Eagle River. It doesn't actually have to be a "port". Here's a quote from a documentation company http://www.vesseldocumentation.com/faq.html#5 :

    "What is a Hailing Port and how do I choose one?
    A Hailing Port is your choice of city to be marked on the vessel. You can choose any city in the United States as prescribed in the U.S. Dept. of Commerce's Federal Information Processing Standards Publication 55DC. You must display it on the outside of your vessel in compliance with prescribed instructions. (see Official Number and Hailing Port Regulations)"

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    Here's how it looks
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member JR2's Avatar
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    The problem is that I told the bank I wanted Homer, AK as the port of registration. I probably will not get around to changing it until the loan is paid off.

    On another note, for those of you with decremented boats, how did you attach the number to the inside of the boat. It says it has to be permanent or so that if its removed there will be evidence. Not sure where I am going to get 3 inch tall numbers welded onto the hull, I guess I could just used epoxy and glue some numbers somewhere.
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

    Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and not always right at the top. -- Hunter S. Thompson

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    Member Lone Wolf1's Avatar
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    I don't have a picture to show you, but mine are glued to the inside cabin bulkhead above the step going from the inside cabin out to the rear deck. They must be okay, because I was boarded and thoroughly inspected by a 5-member USCG boardng team out of Whittier my first year of ownership, and they said everything was fine - they specifically looked at those numbers.

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