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Thread: 25 wssm Vs 25-06 Vs 243

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    Default 25 wssm Vs 25-06 Vs 243

    I'm lookin into a new gun, for taking moose, bear, fox and the like,

    I am looking deeper into the above mentioned cartridges, I know the 243 and 25-06 are popular fur and meat calibers in the states, but I am a little bit skeptical about using it on moose.

    I have NO knowledge of the 25wssm, I just saw a box of shells for it on hte shelf in sportsman's warehouse, and I thought I would ask about it...

    Keep in mind, it is a fur AND meat gun. it would be used 90% of the time on fox and moose.

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    Member Milo's Avatar
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    I've used one for deer and 'lope. Loved it but personally wouldn't go that small for moose - others will disagree.

    Last I heard (3 years ago), nobody was manufacturing a rifle in that caliber any longer. Previously Browning and Winchester had, maybe others. I had a chance to get one at a great price back then and passed because I didn't really want to own an "orphan".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post
    I've used one for deer and 'lope. Loved it but personally wouldn't go that small for moose - others will disagree.

    Last I heard (3 years ago), nobody was manufacturing a rifle in that caliber any longer. Previously Browning and Winchester had, maybe others. I had a chance to get one at a great price back then and passed because I didn't really want to own an "orphan".
    Your talkin the 25 WSSM?

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    None are a good "Fur" cartridge, unless you dont give a hoot for the fur, or do head shots.

    A Fox hit with a .243w will not be pretty, nor a Lynx or many other .......A BIG Wolf, maby, but a .22 Hornet, .22mag or such would do you mucho better in the fur department.

    They are all excellent game cartridges, for sure, and a .243w with 100 grn. will kill any Big Game animal in the state,, as long as you place the shot proper.....the others will do just as good, maby better in some situations. .
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    The 25WSSM is gaining some traction because of it's high velocity and short COAL, in fact it is short enough to fit an AR15 magwell. Olympic Arms and D-Tech are both putting out upper receivers in 25WSSM.

    As to the original question, just buy 2 guns. Pick up a cheap .223 and a cheap 30-06 or 308 Win and be done with it. There are several new budget guns out there that shoot fantastic and are easy on the wallet. If you go w/ the 223/308 combo you will save many times the cost of the extra rifle in ammo over the long run.

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    I also think you need two guns, you are trying to kill animals on both ends of the spectrum. I do believe those guns will kill both animals but they are not really well suited for either. I would go with the 308 or 06 for moose but you will get more pelt damage than you want even with the 223 on foxes. Strangerinastrangeland nailed the fox guns with the hornet or 22mag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    Your talkin the 25 WSSM?
    Yep, 25wssm. One of my hunting partners in L48 has a few of them. Nice handling/shooting rifles. I haven't looked for ammo in a long time, but I don't recall it being particularly cheap either.

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    FurFishGame, you can look at winchester ballistic calculator and get a fairly decent idea of bullet drop and any caliber you pick to investigate it allows you to pick up to five different cartridges as wells as a bullet selection while also comparing multiple calibers against each other. Then go to midway.com or sportmans guide and compare ammo prices. I have used the 25-06 for quite awhile and 7mm Rem mag for even longer and find the trajectory of the 25-06 is comparible to the 22-250 with a heavier bullet. Moose can be taken with a 25-06 it happens more often then most think proper bullet placement and bullet selection are a must in this instance. And yes Stranger hit it dead on the head small fur bearers will be a mess with anything bigger then a .22 caliber selection, coyotes and wolves not as bad with good bullet selection. Good money minded rifles are the Savage 110 or other 100 series rifles, Marlin XL7, Mossberg 4x4 or ATR. You could also go with a T/C Encore and change calibers for around $200.00 a barrel (if this option is you choice when mounting a scope use Leupold QR bases and rings). These will allow you to move you scope and rings to various barrels just by having the QR mounts on your other barrels.
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    How about a 7.62X54r throwing a FMJ? what would that do to a fox?

    The reason I asked about the 243 is because I know it is popular in the lower 48 for varmints too.

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    I've got to agree with several other posters... you're looking to do too much with one rifle. The 25-06 is pretty small for moose (although it would work in certain instances) and it's awfully hard on foxes and fur critters.

    If forced to a single rifle, I would be more likely to pick something like an '06 or .308 where I could use both good 180/165gr. big game bullets for moose and have a reasonable selection of "varmint-ish" bullets like the 125gr SP, 150gr FMJ (both slowed WAY down) and the .22 Accelerators- all of these are pretty hard on fur if you're not careful... You'll be a bit overgunned on foxes but I'd rather be overgunned on a fox than undergunned on a moose or bear...just my $.02

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    I shoot them in the head.
    I shoot everything, whenever possible, in the head with FMJ's, Because I CAN .
    My 7.62X54r in wicked accurate,hence, my suggestion as to doing such, in my first reply below .........

    Czeck 7.62X54R FMJ light ball is awsome on all game.......

    There are NO "Varmits" in Alaska, we call 'em "Fur", and value them as such.






    Even Ptarmigan, provided you placed the shot right .......


    Wolves are the exception and the Wolves Ive gotten this winter were all done in with that round as well, but they are big enough to warrent such a round, as well, they are rarely less than 100 yards away when getting shot, most often running, and getting further and further away.............so you want to reach out and "touch them", and the larger cartridge is appropriate...
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Just a different experiance here, a .243 with either FMJ or a premium big game bullet do very little damage to fur. I've seen lynx and fox taken with 85gr TSX out of a .243 and on something that small, it acted like a FMJ. Almost zero expansion. That being said, I would not shoot a moose with a .243 because I can afford to have more than one gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    I shoot them in the head.
    I shoot everything, whenever possible, in the head with FMJ's, Because I CAN .
    My 7.62X54r in wicked accurate,hence, my suggestion as to doing such, in my first reply below .........

    Czeck 7.62X54R FMJ light ball is awsome on all game.......

    There are NO "Varmits" in Alaska, we call 'em "Fur", and value them as such.






    Even Ptarmigan, provided you placed the shot right .......


    Wolves are the exception and the Wolves Ive gotten this winter were all done in with that round as well, but they are big enough to warrent such a round, as well, they are rarely less than 100 yards away when getting shot, most often running, and getting further and further away.............so you want to reach out and "touch them", and the larger cartridge is appropriate...
    Thanks!

    I think I am going to get the mossin, (sp?) because I need a big game gun before next moose season, and use it for fox and stuff, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    Thanks!

    I think I am going to get the mossin, (sp?) because I need a big game gun before next moose season, and use it for fox and stuff, thanks!
    Mostly because they are cheap to buy and the ammo is cheap too.

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    I'm no expert when it comes to all the calibers out there, but, I do know one thing is that I have killed everything from bobcats to moose & grizz and everything in between with 7-08. Now I know someone out there is going to be a critic of what I shoot & thats OK. I pick my shots & I know what the limitations are with that round. I can say that I have killed mule deer @ 610 yards( 1 shot kill bang, walk, flop) Bull elk @ 463 yards, coyotes up to 400 yards, big black bears @ 200 yards, grizz @ 135 yards, bull moose @ 160 yards and the list goes on. With the right bullet I have never tracked anything futher than 100 yards. I have killed thin skin critters @ 70 yards ( bobcat, coyotes) with minimium fur damage. I also have 338 RUM for when we go after coastal brown bears & i'll admit I take it moose hunting also sometimes. With the moderate velocities of the 7-08 it can be loaded to accompany any type of critter you're after. I read all these threads about big magnums, light magnums, 243, 30-06 bla bla bla & I can't figure out why people get all worked up about the perfect round. I must admit I am partial to the mighty 7-08 because I have had great success with it. It is easy to reload, it doesn't kick the snot out of ya, componets are easy to come by, it has a great B.C. along with sectional density, & you can load 110 to 175 grain bullet to fit whatever the sitution might be. Just because you think you are under gunned doesn't mean you can work into a position to put the odds in your favor. Look @ it like bow hunting but with greater range limitations. Well thats my 2 cents

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    Any FMJ wil do well on Fox, with Head shots......though its a small target your looking to hit with thah big bullet.....

    hit 'em anywhere else, and its not a pretty sight......

    Mosin Nagant......get Finnsh built and you can't go wrong, as long as you have the "Skills".

    All that matter is "Where" you put the bullet, and with a .22, you can hit 'em most any viatl and be happy, with high powerd FMJ, that head can be a trick......The .22 gives you more "Target" to make it bleed lots and die........

    I always carry a .22 for Fur, Rabbits, Ptarmigan, ect.
    Catching Fox, Lynx and such requires a carefull shot, the Mosin is not my first choice, but it works well when it is called on.
    While the Mosin may do great for head shots, If possible to obtain on a .22 mag it's pretty hard to beat for all around fur, and theres lotta small game to pop as well.......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaska2go View Post
    I'm no expert when it comes to all the calibers out there, but, I do know one thing is that I have killed everything from bobcats to moose & grizz and everything in between with 7-08. Now I know someone out there is going to be a critic of what I shoot & thats OK. I pick my shots & I know what the limitations are with that round. I can say that I have killed mule deer @ 610 yards( 1 shot kill bang, walk, flop) Bull elk @ 463 yards, coyotes up to 400 yards, big black bears @ 200 yards, grizz @ 135 yards, bull moose @ 160 yards and the list goes on. With the right bullet I have never tracked anything futher than 100 yards. I have killed thin skin critters @ 70 yards ( bobcat, coyotes) with minimium fur damage. I also have 338 RUM for when we go after coastal brown bears & i'll admit I take it moose hunting also sometimes. With the moderate velocities of the 7-08 it can be loaded to accompany any type of critter you're after. I read all these threads about big magnums, light magnums, 243, 30-06 bla bla bla & I can't figure out why people get all worked up about the perfect round. I must admit I am partial to the mighty 7-08 because I have had great success with it. It is easy to reload, it doesn't kick the snot out of ya, componets are easy to come by, it has a great B.C. along with sectional density, & you can load 110 to 175 grain bullet to fit whatever the sitution might be. Just because you think you are under gunned doesn't mean you can work into a position to put the odds in your favor. Look @ it like bow hunting but with greater range limitations. Well thats my 2 cents
    That was another consideration of mine, the 7-08 is a necked down 308 right?

    did you use the same bullet on elk as you did the bobcat?

    I'm not looking for the "perfect" round, I am just getting peoples opinions. And I'm with you, it really annoys me when people start talking about how you need to get rid of your 270 and get a 300 UM just to hunt black bears. I would have no problem shooting a moose with a 243, I wouldn't take one at 300 yards, but I would a 200, maybe even 250 if it was just right.

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    Experiment with different kinds of ammo, and see which one does best, as an accurate rifle/ammo combo.
    My Mosin loves Czeck, and its gotten in bulk, my .22 is spot on with Remington Small game loads, a hollow point, and I get 'em in bulk.

    It took a bit of shooting and buy ammo til I gave up the gun or figured out what ammo it can do best with, but once I had that figured out, all the $$ I spent finding that perfect combo was worth ever penny.......

    Accuracy .......It's where its at.....
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FurFishGame View Post
    That was another consideration of mine, the 7-08 is a necked down 308 right?

    did you use the same bullet on elk as you did the bobcat?

    I'm not looking for the "perfect" round, I am just getting peoples opinions. And I'm with you, it really annoys me when people start talking about how you need to get rid of your 270 and get a 300 UM just to hunt black bears. I would have no problem shooting a moose with a 243, I wouldn't take one at 300 yards, but I would a 200, maybe even 250 if it was just right.
    Both the .243 and 7-08 are simply necked down .308 and both are great calibers. If I was going to only use one gun for varmits to moose, I would go .308 and handload. 110g speer "varmiter" for foxes ect. and move up to 165g and 180g Barnes or Noslers for everything else. I supose that the same argument could easily be used for the 7-08 also. But IMO, better a little on the big side than a little on the small side and better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mekaniks View Post
    Both the .243 and 7-08 are simply necked down .308 and both are great calibers. If I was going to only use one gun for varmits to moose, I would go .308 and handload. 110g speer "varmiter" for foxes ect. and move up to 165g and 180g Barnes or Noslers for everything else. I supose that the same argument could easily be used for the 7-08 also. But IMO, better a little on the big side than a little on the small side and better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it....
    from what I have read, the 7mm-08 carries energy better and penitrates better then teh 308

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