Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Bacon???

  1. #1
    New member ALASKARULZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default Bacon???

    are we allowed to use raw bacon to catch halibut?

    also does anyone have a pictures of fishhooks made with polarbear fur?
    I need some ideas I'm native and want to make them

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,568

    Default

    Cooked with mayo and a slice of cheese may catch more.
    Tennessee

  3. #3
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    raw bacon is legal as far as I'm concerned. As for polar bear hair send some to me and I'll make you some flies as an educational thing
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  4. #4
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ketchikan, AK
    Posts
    4,076

    Smile Polar Bear Hair

    Alaskarulz: The official fly of the Alaska Flyfisher uses polar bear hair. The name of the fly is the Alaska Mary Ann. This fly was developed by Frank Dufresne, and there are several versions of the story about its origin. The following is one of Dufresne's version. "For many years Eskimo women in the Kotzebue area have used a small jig, called the "Kobuk Hook," to jig for char and sheefish through the ice. It is made from a sliver of ivory, a bent and sharpened nail, and some polar bear hair." Dufresne tried them on a fly rod and found them very effective. When he ran out of the originals, he tied a duplicate using regular fly tying materials.

    According to one story, it was named for the Eskimo lady who gave Dufresne the "Kobuk Hooks" and whose name was Mary Ann. This version was shown to Harry Geron in 1953 at Sparrevohn Air Force Station by a man who claimed to have been a friend of Dufresne, who showed him how to tie it and told him its history. For many years this has been a good pattern for virtually all predatory fish in Alaskan rivers and lakes. The above info is from the book "Fly Patterns of Alaska, by The Alaska Flyfishers.

    I am sure there are many more, but this is the way that came to mind.

    If I have time I can research a few more of my older fly tying books.

    Hope this helps, send me a pm if you want the material list for the fly.

    kingfisherktn

  5. #5
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Valdez, Alaska
    Posts
    4,402

    Default Legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    raw bacon is legal as far as I'm concerned. As for polar bear hair send some to me and I'll make you some flies as an educational thing
    Unless you are native AKP you can not have any polar bear hair unless it has aready been made into a crafted product.

    § 216.23 Native exceptions.
    (a) Taking. Notwithstanding the prohibitions
    of subpart B of this part 216,
    but subject to the restrictions contained
    in this section, any Indian,
    Aleut, or Eskimo who resides on the
    VerDate Aug<31>2005 10:51 Nov 04, 2005 Jkt 205221 PO 00000 Frm 00027 Fmt 8010 Sfmt 8010 Y:\SGML\205221.XXX 205221
    18
    &#167; 216.23 50 CFR Ch. II (10–1–05 Edition)
    coast of the North Pacific Ocean or the
    Arctic Ocean may take any marine
    mammal without a permit, if such taking
    is:
    (1) By Alaskan Natives who reside in
    Alaska for subsistence, or
    (2) For purposes of creating and selling
    authentic native articles of handicraft
    and clothing, and
    (3) In each case, not accomplished in
    a wasteful manner.
    (b) Restrictions. (1) No marine mammal
    taken for subsistence may be sold
    or otherwise transferred to any person
    other than an Alaskan Native or delivered,
    carried, transported, or shipped in
    interstate or foreign commerce, unless:
    (i) It is being sent by an Alaskan Native
    directly or through a registered
    agent to a tannery registered under
    paragraph (c) of this section for the
    purpose of processing, and will be returned
    directly or through a registered
    agent to the Alaskan Native; or
    (ii) It is sold or transferred to a registered
    agent in Alaska for resale or
    transfer to an Alaskan Native; or
    (iii) It is an edible portion and it is
    sold in an Alaskan Native village or
    town.
    (2) No marine mammal taken for purposes
    of creating and selling authentic
    native articles of handicraft and clothing
    may be sold or otherwise transferred
    to any person other than an Indian,
    Aleut or Eskimo, or delivered,
    carried, transported or shipped in
    interstate or foreign commerce, unless:
    (i) It is being sent by an Indian,
    Aleut or Eskimo directly or through a
    registered agent to a tannery registered
    under paragraph (c) of this section
    for the purpose of processing, and
    will be returned directly or through a
    registered agent to the Indian, Aleut or
    Eskimo; or
    (ii) It is sold or transferred to a registered
    agent for resale or transfer to
    an Indian, Aleut, or Eskimo; or
    (iii) It has first been transformed
    into an authentic native article of
    handicraft or clothing; or
    (iv) It is an edible portion and sold
    (A) in an Alaskan Native village or
    town, or (B) to an Alaskan Native for
    his consumption.
    (c) Any tannery, or person who wishes
    to act as an agent, within the jurisdiction
    of the United States may apply
    to the Director, National Marine Fisheries
    Service, U.S. Department of Commerce,
    Washington, DC 20235, for registration
    as a tannery or an agent
    which may possess and process marine
    mammal products for Indians, Aleuts,
    or Eskimos. The application shall include
    the following information:
    (i) The name and address of the applicant;
    (ii) A description of the applicant’s
    procedures for receiving, storing, processing,
    and shipping materials;
    (iii) A proposal for a system of bookkeeping
    and/or inventory segregation
    by which the applicant could maintain
    accurate records of marine mammals
    received from Indians, Aleuts, or Eskimos
    pursuant to this section;
    (iv) Such other information as the
    Secretary may request;
    (v) A certification in the following
    language:
    I hereby certify that the foregoing information
    is complete, true and correct to the
    best of my knowledge and belief. I understand
    that this information is submitted for
    the purpose of obtaining the benefit of an exception
    under the Marine Mammal Protection
    Act of 1972 (16 U.S.C. 1361 through 1407)
    and regulations promulgated thereunder, and
    that any false statement may subject me to
    the criminal penalties of 18 U.S.C. 1001, or to
    penalties under the Marine Mammal Protection
    Act of 1972.
    (vi) The signature of the applicant.
    The sufficiency of the application shall
    be determined by the Secretary, and in
    that connection, he may waive any requirement
    for information, or require
    any elaboration or further information
    deemed necessary. The registration of
    a tannery or other agent shall be subject
    to such conditions as the Secretary
    prescribes, which may include,
    but are not limited to, provisions regarding
    records, inventory segregation,
    reports, and inspection. The Secretary
    may charge a reasonable fee for processing
    such applications, including an
    appropriate apportionment of overhead
    and administrative expenses of the Department
    of Commerce.
    (d) Notwithstanding the preceding
    provisions of this section, whenever,
    under the MMPA, the Secretary determines
    any species of stock of marine
    mammals to be depleted, he may prescribe
    regulations pursuant to section
    Last edited by Daveinthebush; 02-28-2007 at 19:13. Reason: MMPA regs.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  6. #6
    Member sayak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central peninsula, between the K-rivers
    Posts
    5,788

    Default Ummm, maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Unless you are native AKP you can not have any polar bear hair unless it has aready been made into a crafted product.
    If you can get an affidavit that proves your polar bear hair is pre-MMPA act
    (anytime before 1972), I think you can do whatever with it. I, being a white guy, used to buy walrus tusks out in Dillingham from old timers (some of them white) who had beach-combed them well before the act and had attics full of them. I simply had them write up a signed document stating where and when they had harvested the ivory, and then I did whatever with it. I was told that this was legal by a USF&W honcho. I don't think you'd want to mess up a bear rug to make flies though.

    Furthermore, the interpretation of what constitutes a "crafted product" is pretty ambiguous. The act was largely created to stop the commercial harvest and usage of marine mammals by non-natives for profit. I don't think anybody much cares if you tie a few hairs into an Alaska Maryanne if you don't intend to make money from it. Of course then, there are always the paper pushing red-tapers who love to go hunting for any kind of violation. Might even be one reading this very thread...

  7. #7
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Unless you are native AKP you can not have any polar bear hair unless it has aready been made into a crafted product.

    Oh I know thats what googley eyes are for (seriously the guy who sells it in ANC just glues some eyes and a pom pom thing to the strips he sells so they are "handycraft" )

    My family has a cool eskimo yoyo made of it and some sort of leather for the string, it'd get lynched if I made some alaska mary anns with it though
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  8. #8
    Member sayak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central peninsula, between the K-rivers
    Posts
    5,788

    Default Well...

    ...there you go! I wrote my blurb when Dave was posting the law I guess. You'll need to take your chances as to the language and interpretation. Feds can be pretty sticky about these things.

  9. #9
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Valdez, Alaska
    Posts
    4,402

    Default Yes

    Yes as long as it was before 1972 or is now a handicrafted item.

    Some people are better at handicraft than others. You can glue a bead to the end of a hair and call it a handicrafted............something or other.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  10. #10
    Member sayak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Central peninsula, between the K-rivers
    Posts
    5,788

    Default AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKARULZ View Post
    are we allowed to use raw bacon to catch halibut?

    also does anyone have a pictures of fishhooks made with polarbear fur?
    I need some ideas I'm native and want to make them
    People have been known to catch halibut on all kinds of things, but a greasy hunk of bacon might not leave much of a scent trail compared to a herring, salmon belly, or chunk of octopus.

    Here are a few pix of AMAs. Looks like there is room for artistic lisence.

    www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly5.html
    www.akflyfishers.com/akmaryann.html

    P.S. Don't try a banana!

  11. #11
    New member ALASKARULZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2

    Default

    thanks everyone for the usefull info and yes you must be native to own
    polarbear hair and it must be made into a craft I'm a artist so I know
    I just needed some ideas for a good hook cause I got enuff hair to make tons of them

  12. #12
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Valdez, Alaska
    Posts
    4,402

    Talking Alaskarulz

    ALASKARULZ

    If you do start making your own flys, please post some pictures for us. I am sure that everyone would love to see some Native crafts even if only flys.

    I remember in Elim that the hardest part was not making the craft, but finding a market. You just might be able to find one here.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  13. #13

    Default What if---

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKARULZ View Post
    thanks everyone for the usefull info and yes you must be native to own
    polarbear hair and it must be made into a craft I'm a artist so I know
    I just needed some ideas for a good hook cause I got enuff hair to make tons of them
    What if it was given to you by a native in an art piece, then you cut it off and used it to make a fly? Would federal officers with black suites and sunglasses come sliding sideways in a black excursion with guns drawn, order you on the ground and arrest you?

    Sorry, but the issue just sounds really silly. As silly as getting arrested for picking up an eagle feather on the ground. Just seems like mountains out of molecules.
    Hike faster. I hear banjo music.

  14. #14

    Default Pictures of that fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildog View Post
    What if it was given to you by a native in an art piece, then you cut it off and used it to make a fly? Would federal officers with black suites and sunglasses come sliding sideways in a black excursion with guns drawn, order you on the ground and arrest you?

    Sorry, but the issue just sounds really silly. As silly as getting arrested for picking up an eagle feather on the ground. Just seems like mountains out of molecules.
    I assume that would be a dry fly? Does anyone have a picture or a link to a picture of it?

    (by the way I wasn't trying to offend anyone by my comments, I understand the law)
    Hike faster. I hear banjo music.

  15. #15
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Ketchikan, AK
    Posts
    4,076

    Smile Alaska Mary Ann

    Two versions
    Last edited by kingfisherktn; 03-03-2007 at 20:36.

  16. #16
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River/ Juneau
    Posts
    5,154

    Default

    Pretty much every steelhead fly with a calftail or bucktail wing origionally used polar bear hair, the calftail adaptation is from the scarecity of PBH
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •