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Thread: Fish and game at it again

  1. #1

    Default Fish and game at it again

    Fish and game are talking about closing spike fork moose hunting in up coming meeting!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hookedoo View Post
    Fish and game are talking about closing spike fork moose hunting in up coming meeting!!
    My guess is that it all has to do with numbers: moose population in a given area, bull vs cow ratios, number of cows NOT being bred, calf survival.
    Probably looooong over due, in some sreas.

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    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    My under standing it is basically a done deal for the Kenai Pen. I agree that something needs to be done, but not sure this is it, but a start. They are also saying season to open Sept 1st, which is good. No expert, just my opinion.
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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I am not opposed to this proposal, can't hurt down here on the peninsula.
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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    I am not opposed to it either, but there should be a corresponding effort to reduce predation of fawns by brown and black bear along with this move. Wait: are baby moose even called fawns?

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    I would like to see the prop have an expiration date where it automatically returned to SF50 unless an extension was put in place by the BOG and the regional AC.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    I am not opposed to it either, but there should be a corresponding effort to reduce predation of fawns by brown and black bear along with this move. Wait: are baby moose even called fawns?
    Sorry sayak but your moose and bears are "different" right across the inlet in 16 low moose numbers were blamed on predation. But your low moose numbers those are from low bull numbers. I've never heard such a crock in my life. If all you hunters would just leave th kp alone the bears would have more food.
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    Spike/fork is really only a concern for the KP area I believe. I don't think any other areas in AK have low bull:cow numbers like the KP now. I hope maybe this will wake people up that have been shooting illegal ones on the southern KP. There are hardly any tweeners and ADF&G aerial survey data backs that up. It's like you got to be kidding me to think there isn't a lot of illegal bulls get shot when you only count a handfull of tweeners out of 400 to 500 moose they counted in one area. If hunters were truly harvesting spike/fork and 50 then sure their numbers would be low, but to have about 6 or 7 tweeners out of 400 moose or so kind of proves that the take on these moose has also been high.
    Personally I'm all for it because it's not just hunting big bulls that i like but also watching big bulls. With such a high take on the young bulls there are hardly any currently that are reaching 50. Plus if the meat hunters would think about it there is 2 to 3 times the meat on a big bull so you could shoot a 50 incher every 3 years and it would be like shooting a spike/fork every yr. Then the moose herd will be way healthier with more big bulls around that can service more cows. I expect spike/fork to probably be removed for at least 4 years to get the older class of bulls built up and I don't ever expect to see a 30 day spike/fork and 50 season ever again on the KP.
    I also think at some pt. brown bear predation needs to be addressed. 5 calves:100 cows, with those kind of ratios it could take a long time to get the bull:cow ratio built back up. At least KP residents will be able get 3 black bear this year.

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    Yup! IF the cow:calf ratio is 100:5 that is your problem. Further limiting the bull take is a precursor to predator control. Not shooting sf moose won't do much to bolster the herd but the effort will show those that don't know that all was tried before PC.

    I think the moose are being poached too. 33O is right I believe. The state needs more game wardens protecting the resource and has for the last 10 years. New hunters to the state of Alaska need a Hunter Safety course that also teaches ethics and basic biology ie WHY we need to remain within the bag limit, adhere to the seasons, not sell fish & game etc.

    Some people don't care about fish & game and they don't pass on ethics to their children either.

    Soon enough the land will be just like where they came from, not wise....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33outdoorsman View Post
    5 calves:100 cows, with those kind of ratios it could take a long time to get the bull:cow ratio built back up. At least KP residents will be able get 3 black bear this year.
    33,

    Where did you get that ratio from? Between Nikiski and Kenai I have seen many calves.

    Is there and talk of having an antlerless hunt as well as not shooting small bulls?

    I have seen A LOT of moose and moose sign around while hunting small game and driving around the KP this winter. On a trip to Homer from Nikiski in February I counted over 30 moose many of those were calves! (one got hit 100yds in front of me)

    Its starving time now for moose and they are starting to show up despite very low snow depth this winter. It appears to me that the moose numbers are good, but the bull to cow ratio is low because there are too many cows out-competing bulls for food and space.

  11. #11

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    In a typically calf ratio it should be 50 cows/ 50 bulls so if the bulls are down it can't only be bears effecting the herd it has to be something else. Bears are indiscriminate in which sex they kill. I do hope they allow more browns to be killed from hope to homer. But suspending a hunt to allow growth isn't bad either if they would take out more bears.

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    Sorry, I should have stated 5:100 cows for the caribou hills. I'm aware the ratios are good around homes and the roadway because there aren't near as many bears around these areas. Remember in the winter and spring the moose sightings will be skewed. In the winter moose like to come by the road and in the spring the cows come by the homes for some refuge from the bears. I remember counting 27 moose from soldotna to ninilchik last may on a fishing trip and the majority of these were adult cows with some calves mixed in. I have no doubt the low bull:cow ratio is contributing to this low ratio, but with the amount of bears I've been seeing lately I have no doubt they are having an impact as well.

  13. #13

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    Would much rather see them further divide the KP into several smaller GMU's and deal with this problem on a more localized basis. From everything I can see, the yearling population on the flats in 15A/B is healthy. The issue in the hills I would most likely attribute to natural predation. One option available for the hills area would be to cut the season down to 10-15 days from the current 30 days.

    On a side discussion, I've also wondered why they don't allow an early season archery hunt in 15C? In a discussion I had w/ the FWP officer I met in the Falls Creek area, he indicated they had a very healthy population of yearlings in 15C.

    Personally, being exclusively an arrow-slinger I would love to see them extend the archery season another 7 days, from the 10th through the 24th, then shorten the rifle season to starting Sept 1. As it stands now, I would imagine we only see 30-50 moose total taken during the existing 7 day archery season in 15A/B, whereas we probably see that opening day of the rifle season. Shortening the rifle season 10 days may make all the difference needed.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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  15. #15

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    Has there ever been a follow-up study on the effects of the spike-fork-50" strategy? Last year, where I was hunting in GMU 13E, we saw over two dozen bull moose in a week and a half. Only one was clearly over 50". The rest were clones in the 45" range.

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