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Thread: Feds vs. State

  1. #1
    Member Jeff U's Avatar
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    Default Feds vs. State


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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    What else is new. Federal Govt. at its finest...
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    I'm new to this state and am not up on why the Federal Government has such a large foot hold in this state vs. the rest of the country. After moving here, I am increasingly apalled at how much land they have tied up in NP's. I can understand preserving places and that's cool but why not just settle for a wilderness area? The lower 48's protected areas are mostly in the form of wilderness areas that still allow hunting and what not. Sure there are some NP's but nothing like up here.

    Why doesn't Alaska tell them to take a hike and do what they want with "THEIR" state. It seems kind of backwards to have a self governing state (for the most part), yet not have control or say over huge portions of your own land.

    Why did Alaska agree to give up so much of it's land to the Feds?

    Sorry if these are stupid questions.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    The rural subsistance users made a deal with the devil a few years back and the devil is coming to collect. Did they really think the Feds would be better stewards of the subsistance live style. Hungry on unimak island eat a wolf.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

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    Member Jeff U's Avatar
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    And some interesting bedfellows..........
    http://action.defenders.org/site/Pag...5ofdt1.app226a
    http://savethewolf.net/stop-the-unimak-wolf-cull/
    http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news...nd-alaska.html

    Sounds like to me, there needs to be a study on Bear, wolf and caribou population study, not just one or 2 species. Combine that with food sources availability, hunter harvest numbers, native subsistence harvest, and population density variances, should all be considered.
    Am I missing something, or is this just political?

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Seems simple to me, kill the wolves and see how it goes. Not like they are killing all of the wolves and I don't see a reason to waste a bunch of money for a big study over 7 wolves. If it works and the bou come back then the wolves will too, if it doesn't then the wolves would have died anyway. I fail to see a downside to killing the 7 wolves...

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    I believe if I were one of the 41 jolly residents of the island, I'd be developing an irrational fear that about seven wolves were threatening me and my neighbors.... and I'd probably start taking a few afternoon walks with my gun to relieve the stress.
    Passing up shots on mergansers since 1992.


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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Just in case anyone wants to actually read the decision document.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Interesting to hear the Federal and state perspectives on this issue as reported on Ch. 2 News. Basically nothing new here. The feds say they are managing for the whole nation; state says it has to manage as needed by the population of Alaska. Personally I believe that the feds are managing in response to environmentalist concern.
    Big question: what happens to the wolves when they have eaten themselves out of house and home? Is that sound management?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    Hungry on unimak island eat a wolf.
    I haven't heard of anybody starving to death on Unimak Is. and I doubt I will in the future.

    They have plenty of other sources of protein out there.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
    - Jef Mallett

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default That Darn Management Idea

    It looks like it's still wide open for us, Ten Wolves, until May 25th
    So what's the problem, beside the political struggle going on ??
    That is unless there's something to that Predator Control Supplement that I can't seem to pull up ??

    Yeah, I know, it is Irritating as all get out, to see Wildlife managed out on the Aleutian Chain for Wolf Viewing,

    or is it, Wolf Imagining, y'kno,

    "Just knowing they're out there, howling away, doing their social thing, puppies tumbling together by the den, all fuzzy and cute...
    It just makes my life here on Sunshine Blvd just better all around, more fulfilling...."

    Long as nobody mentions that they'll soon be howling for the fact that their puppies are starving to death... SHHHhhssshhhhh, too graphic for the children.....

    That Responsibility of Actually Managing Wildlife is such a Pesky Idea,....geez
    At least, out on Unimak Island, nobody is ever going to go out there to see what happens.
    Well except for the people living out there, and whew, there's not many of them, and nobody's listening to what they have to say,......

    What else could be the reason for the decision, Wolf Puppy Sustainability ??
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Interesting to hear the Federal and state perspectives on this issue as reported on Ch. 2 News. Basically nothing new here. The feds say they are managing for the whole nation; state says it has to manage as needed by the population of Alaska. Personally I believe that the feds are managing in response to environmentalist concern.
    Big question: what happens to the wolves when they have eaten themselves out of house and home? Is that sound management?

    Apparently so. Wolves are being allowed to run all over hell and kill game and livestock in the lower 48 without many repercussions. Sad to see.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Caribou fall low on the scale of how people value animals. Wolves, killer whales and bears are way at the top. They are considered noble even though each routinely eats its prey alive. We have books such as Julie of the Wolves and Never Cry Wolf, and Gentle Ben to thank for the anthropomorphisizing of these animals, however contrived and unrealistic that might be. Ravens are smarter than wolves from what I have seen.
    So if an animal looks noble, it get priority. Doesn't matter if their prey gets hamstrung, by one animal while another tears out the tongue.
    But then, human fetuses get low billing too, so not too surprising.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    I haven't heard of anybody starving to death on Unimak Is. and I doubt I will in the future.

    They have plenty of other sources of protein out there.
    exactly 50 million Koreans can't be wrong. If your hungry on Unimak island eat a wolf.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

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    Member AlpineEarl's Avatar
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    Sayak was right about the books. There are also movies that sensationalize the issue. There is a new movie that pretty well depicts the way some here think of wolves. http://redridinghood.warnerbros.com/

  16. #16

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    Anyone following the Jim Wilde Case on the yukon River?



    Attached are two videos of Congressman Don Young in a hearing this morning. He is questioning the Director of the National Park Service at a Resources Committee Hearing on the Jim Wilde Case on the Yukon Charley National Park. The video had to be edited so its in two parts. Please take a look at the video and distribute as needed. Thanks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5fopd5XzE8 (pt. 1)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YMsfGcBC2I (pt. 2)


  17. #17

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    Locals can shoot all the wolves they see out there basically and hopefully they will. What about brown bear predation on caribou out there? The State doesn't want to talk about that because the guides get too much money for those hunts. One of the reasons the bull:cow ratio is so low is likely due to too many bulls being taken by bear hunters when they were out there in recent years. The locals in False Pass have testified saying they only take an occasional caribou on the island when they are close to town which is not very often. The caribou mostly hang out on the south end of the island away from the village. I am a hunter and want to be successful as much as anyone but shooting wolves in the hope that it will help may not be the best thing to do. What if the habitat is too poor to support the caribou right now. If wolves are shot and the caribou population goes up with no food for the caribou to eat then there will be an even worse die off. A biologically sound study is needed to figure out what is needed rather than shoot first and ask questions later.

  18. #18

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    Here is another Senate Hearing; Between Sen. Murkowski, and NPS Director Johnathan Jarvis. The Video is about 90 minutes, the Senator from Alaska begins at about 55:00 into the meeting, you can fast forward to it. It is extremely telling how the federal Government now assimilate other laws to enforce. Dated March 30 2011

    http://energy.senate.gov/public/inde...2-178eeb5db592 (direct to video)

    or try http://energy.senate.gov/public/inde...2-178eeb5db592

  19. #19
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    squab,

    Thanks much for posting that last link. It's very disappointing what is not as yet happening with NPS regarding this whole thing. They need to rescind the entire policy of stopping boats in motion for safety and registration checks. Some staff also need to be replaced imo.

    The Wilde incident is just the tip of the iceberg, and so far not much is being said about another incident that happened last fall, involving the same two rangers. I did a FOIA request for that (closed case) incident report and the US Attorney got involved and my request was subsequently denied, under the rationale that releasing that incident report would impact the "fairness" of the Jim Wilde trial.

    They just don't want me or anyone else writing about it, at least before Jim's trial which is coming up here next month. Overall I am very disappointed in Yukon Charley and Alaska NPS leadership on this whole deal.

  20. #20
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Have you contacted the attorney defending Jim with that info? Past acts by the officers I would think would be permitted into evidence regardless of what they "want" to happen.

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