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Thread: What does this really mean?...a regulation question

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    Member Grizzly Man's Avatar
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    Default What does this really mean?...a regulation question

    I just completed F&G's online clinic on bear baiting and I wanted to know how to define this. To me it's vague and could get someone into trouble if interpreted differently. I PM'd the wildlife trooper, but wondering what you guys think

    Illegal to Harvest Brown Bears at Black Bear Baiting Sites

    No person who knows, or who should know, that a black bear bait station has been established in an area can legally take a brown bear in that same area. If the movements or behavior of the brown bear have been or could have been --affected by the bait laid out for taking black bears, the brown bear is not legal to harvest.

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    In my opinion it reads that if you harvest a brown bear in any vicinity of a black bear bait station it is illegal - whether you know it or not. The last statement could argue that the bait station could have interrupted the brown bears behavior (making it an illegal harvest) even if you didn't know there was a bait station near by (first statement).

    Interestingly worded statement.

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    Member terbear747's Avatar
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    I just looked the 2010 to June 2011 hunting regs up and down and all it says is "Attention All Bear Hunters: You may not hunt brown/grizzly bears over bait or scent lures!", page 26. In 16B where I have my bait stations in the general area I know of at least 3 other hunters that have baits set up. Thats only the ones I know about and I'm sure there are more. I don't see the "in the same area" as being enforceable unless you're within eyeball distance of the actual bait station or station sign.

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    Member skybust's Avatar
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    If you know or think there is a baiting station in the area dont shoot a brown bear. I rather be safe than sorry

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    Member Grizzly Man's Avatar
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    The bold print is clear, it's the paragragh that follows is what's tripping me up. How big is an area? Would I be able to hunt both types from the same campsite? To me, that would be the same area.

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    GM that same question has been posed over and over again, and its has always been vague as to who qualifies as "persons who should know" it is for that reason that I do not even think of taking griz during bear baiting season in specific units.

    trout--

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    To me, it gives a trooper very wide latitude to write a ticket, and a very small burden of proof to prove you are guilty.

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    If you kill a brown bear in the vicinity of a bait station and you are checked by a trooper he now has incentive to write you a ticket. Regardless if you killed it over bait or not.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    What's the alternative? Just make it legal to kill brown bears over bait?

    I mean they have to draw the line in the sand somewhere...and let the field guys sort it out...

    although I can see a situation where a guy new to an area wants to go bear hunting and has no clue there are baits nearby...

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    What I have done in the past is to contact the enforcement officer that works the area I wanted to hunt and spoke with them. Around Fairbanks there are areas that are known bait areas, those will get you into trouble.

    I also DO NOT hunt Brown bears any where near where I have a bait station.

    Document who you speak with and what was said.

    Be safe and good luck

    Steve
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    Well, one thing for sure if you harvest a brown bear anywhere near your own bait station there would be no difficulty proving this regulation. Otherwise you are probably pretty safe if you dont see any bear baiting signs.
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    The way I handle it. If I see a brown bear in the area I'm baiting...Its his lucky day he gets a pass on getting shot. Way to much gray area to take the shot. If you think you win this fight with fish and game you won't. If your hunting bait station it's best to pass up the shot.
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    Member Grizzly Man's Avatar
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    I called Fish and Game today on it today and I posed the question.....Can I set up camp, hike 2 miles west and hunt black bear over my bait station, then the next day hike 2 miles east of camp and hunt brown bear? His response was " we'll see how the investigation turns out". That was enough for me. he said best practice is to plan 2 seperate hunts/2 seperate places.
    He also said there has been some pressure from AK Guides to close baiting because brownies are being shot on or near bait stations and guides are losing a lot of $$$$

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    Member fishingyoda's Avatar
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    Default That doesn't seem right

    If your four miles away from your bait I doubt that's affecting a brown bear or even closenough to count, but if that's how they want to play they enforce the rules.

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    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Plain and simple....if you want to hunt Griz over bait, go to 20E (predator control area) off the taylor HWY. All you gotta do is register for the permit in person at Tok F&G.

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    Member Grizzly Man's Avatar
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    The reason I posted was because I wanted to do a combo hunt, but after reading (pretty vague) regs, I posted this. My last post was the answer to my own underlying question. I will plan 2 different hunts. BUT that's good info for anyone else that was thinking about hunting both species from the same camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahahawai View Post
    Plain and simple....if you want to hunt Griz over bait, go to 20E (predator control area) off the taylor HWY. All you gotta do is register for the permit in person at Tok F&G.
    I just checked Fish and Games website and all I found was 19D for baiting browns, 20E looks like it is only Wolf control

    I found my info here: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...gulations.misc

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    Talking combo hunt

    Well, you can still do a combo hunt if you dont bait. Its just if you bait you have to make sure the bear wasnt influenced by your bait. Like on a distant hillside moving in the other direction and take some photos to prove your case none the less which is a good idea in any scenario....On a wheeler you could do a combo hunt and be miles away from your bait which is pretty safe legally. I say stick to spot and stalk and you can shoot anything you want and you dont have to haul in all that **** bait!
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    Member highestview's Avatar
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    It does seem vague since they dont relly define vincinity. What is defined as "in the vincinity"? 100 yards? 1/4 mile? 1 mile? 5 miles? Theoretically, bears up to 5 miles away COULD be affected by the presence of a bait station. They could be starting the trek down to the bait. Someone should get F&G's official definition on that.
    Born in Alaska: The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance. Psalm 16:6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Man View Post
    I just completed F&G's online clinic on bear baiting and I wanted to know how to define this. To me it's vague and could get someone into trouble if interpreted differently. I PM'd the wildlife trooper, but wondering what you guys think

    Illegal to Harvest Brown Bears at Black Bear Baiting Sites

    No person who knows, or who should know, that a black bear bait station has been established in an area can legally take a brown bear in that same area. If the movements or behavior of the brown bear have been or could have been --affected by the bait laid out for taking black bears, the brown bear is not legal to harvest.
    Basically, it is a question of moral character and ethics. Either you have it or you don't. In plain english, if you have information that leads you to believe a brown bear is in the area due to a black bear bait station, you ethically should not hunt that bear. The stupid thing I don't like about that rule is that it is unfair to ethical people. I myself, a law abiding citizen, will choose not to shoot a bear because of this stipulation. However, someone else who has no conscience, will not think twice about shooting a grizzly because he/she knows they can get away with it. It's like gun control. The only thing gun control will create is unarmed law abiding citizens. All the criminals will get guns regardless. The only difference will be the criminals will be empowered because they know the ethical, moral people will be disarmed.

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