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Thread: Rifle Question

  1. #1

    Default Rifle Question

    Well, now that the draw's out, looks like I need a new gun.

    Currently, I have a 30-30 with iron sights. I drew DC481 and also DB 257. Obviously I'm not going to use the 30-30 on a brownie!

    I don't really want to buy two new guns, so I see a couple of options.

    1. Buy a 30.06 and use it on both. It's on the light side for the bear, but I'm also pretty small...
    2. Trick out my 30-30 with a scope for the 'bou and get something bigger for the bear.
    3. Something else that I haven't thought of, but you have!

    If it were you, which way would you go?

  2. #2
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Ain't nothing wrong with shooting a 'bou with a .338... it'll do the trick I bet. Lot of one gun hunters are using a .338 or .300 for both those species with good results

  3. #3

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    Door number 1. 30-06 is the Alaskan do all caliber. I am in the market also, if anyone has an extra layin' around collectin' dust.
    FWIW, I don't have magnum fever, and some are gonna say you need no less than an ultra mag for brownies. To each their own.

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    I would buy the 30-06, scope it, and use loads with 180 grain bullets.

    I think you don't need anything bigger than a 30-06 for the grizzly.

    Midwayusa has a sale on Bushell Elite 3200 3X9 scopes.

    Smitty of the North
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    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  5. #5

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    You could also get a heavier CZ 550 375 HH or a Browning Abolt 375 HH with a muzzle break and load up to it. A very heavy 375HH has more of a shotgun push and the ABolt with a muzzle break is very doable if you get very good hearing protection. It might kick less then an ultralight 06.

    Sincerely,
    Thomas

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    After much research and loading data and balistic reviews, I am personally going to buy a 338 win mag. plenty of knock down not to much kick and in comparisonto the 338 RUM or the 375 H&H or many of the other large magnums, the 338 will not break the bank our your shoulder and still provide devistating down range energy. Aslo if hand leaded can be loaded with anywhere from a low 100 grain to 250 grain bullet.

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    Member 0321Tony's Avatar
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    I have both the 300 win mag and the 300 RUM and have taken brownies, moose, blacks and caribou with both. I think I would go with the 300 win mag though if you are not that big of a guy. A lot of people like the 30-06 but it has almost the same exact recoil as the 300 win but you get just a little more out of the 300. I personaly like the ultra because its flatter shooting and you can get a little extra range out of it, but the down side of the ultra is it kicks the heck out of you. I had it muzzle broke and now my wife can shoot it just fine but it is loud as hell. There are plenty of bullet choices for the 30 cal if you hand load you can get a 220grn for the brownie and drop to a 160 or so for the bou.
    Another option is the 300 short mag balistics wise it is in between the 300 win and the ultra but unless you hand load the bullet selection is a little slimmer, and finding bullets is not as easy as they are for the -06 or the 300. Either way you cant go wrong with a 30-06 or a 300.

    Good luck on both your hunts congrads on the draw I am hoping for better luck next year but I still have lots to hunt without the bonus tags.

  8. #8

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    In my experience the .338 WM kicks harder(sharper) than the .375 H&H.. I have both, built to almost the same specs, and I prefer the recoil of the .375 H&H.. I've shot both ALOT. Now, UM's are whole different ball game!

    I'm in the process of building a "lightweight" .300 Wby (no brake). It's gonna be a handful!!

  9. #9

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    Check out this recoil table by Chuck Hawks. Interesting to see the scientific data behind the recoil debate.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

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    You might want to look at the 338 federal. Very light recoil,yet shoots the same bullet as the 338 winchester. Shoots flat and is easy on powder. I have used one for a few years now and love it. This table gives you an idea of this calibers merits... 7mm Rem Mag..175-grain, TKO 20.3, 3180 ft-lbs, 2860 fps
    - 338 Win Mag.......200-grain, TKO 28.5, 3866 ft-lbs, 2950 fps
    - 30-06 Spg............180-grain, TKO 21.4, 2915 ft-lbs, 2700 fps
    - 30-06 Spg............200-grain, TKO 23.1, 3060 ft-lbs, 2625 fps
    - 308 Win................180-grain, TKO 21.7, 2743 ft-lbs, 2620 fps
    - 308 Win................200-grain, TKO 21.7, 2690 ft-lbs, 2461 fps
    - 338 Federal.........180-grain, TKO 24.6, 3200 ft-lbs, 2830 fps
    - 338 Federal.........210-grain, TKO 26.7, 3224 ft-lbs, 2630 fps
    (TKO and energy at muzzle) The 338 W with a 200 grn bullet is 2950 vs the federal with a 210 grn bullet at 2630 a measly 300 FPS difference with a LOT less recoil and powder!

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    I love the .30-06', I own a few of them, but taking one with the intention of hunting coastal brown bears is where I draw the line (presumably your DB257 is such a tag). I suggest the .338WM loaded with 225 or 250 grain Premium bullet for the task, IMO it the best "one rifle caliber" for all of North America, of course that gets debated frequently around here.

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    338 speaking strictly from a ballistic point of view you are probably right, although if you take a real close honest look at the ballistics of some other calibers (like the Federal) you will see the advantage in real world hunting situations is negligible. If you then look at the recoil and powder consumption of the 338 W it is even less appealing. I got a good deal on a Remington 700 left hand version a number of years ago and did a fair amount of hunting with it, but the recoil bothered me. I traded it off for a BLR in 358 winchester and I am of the firm opinion that out to 250 yards it puts critters down with more authority. The federal round is even better at the longer ranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    338 speaking strictly from a ballistic point of view you are probably right, although if you take a real close honest look at the ballistics of some other calibers (like the Federal) you will see the advantage in real world hunting situations is negligible. If you then look at the recoil and powder consumption of the 338 W it is even less appealing. I got a good deal on a Remington 700 left hand version a number of years ago and did a fair amount of hunting with it, but the recoil bothered me. I traded it off for a BLR in 358 winchester and I am of the firm opinion that out to 250 yards it puts critters down with more authority. The federal round is even better at the longer ranges.
    Recoil tolerance is a personal perspective that no one can argue, in my case, the worst experience with recoil I have had was from a .300WM, the recoil velocity of that round is uncomfortable, some/many like you I imagine, feel that way about the .338WM though I am not bothered by it, and I find the .375HH even easier to shoot. Generaly speaking, the larger the bore the less recoil velocity, the greater ft/lbs of recoil. As for the .338 caliber or any caliber for that matter, I tend to favor heavy for caliber bullets as I am a fan of momentum.

    Comparing the .338Fed to the .338WM with a 200 and 210 grn pill respectively they are very close, put a 225grn pill in the mix (which a Fed does not shoot) and the energy at the muzzle in the WM is 700ft/lbs+,20+%greater, and at 300yds still more than 400ft/lbs ,25% greater than the Fed capability and nearly identical to a 250grn pill in the WM.

    That being said, I agree the .338Fed would be a reasonable choice. Had the .338Fed been developed 18 years ago when I purchased the WM, I may have opted for it instead.

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    338 I am recoil sensitive, probably more so than most. I also like heavy bullets and have no problem with a 45/70. A 338 federal DOES shoot 225 grain bullets. I loaded some last spring, before I had a chronograph so dont know the velocity but they were very accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    338 I am recoil sensitive, probably more so than most. I also like heavy bullets and have no problem with a 45/70. A 338 federal DOES shoot 225 grain bullets. I loaded some last spring, before I had a chronograph so dont know the velocity but they were very accurate.
    Good to know about the 225grn bullet, I had not seen that on tables I have looked at. I will have to look further and satisfy my couriosity about that load.

  16. #16
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    the .30-'06 will do everything you ask it to and more. no hesitation hunting coastal brown bears with it for me. the .30-.30 worked over its fair share of kodiak bears back in the day. if i had one gun in the safe and didn't back clients up, it'd be either a '06, 300 win or .338 win.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    338 I am recoil sensitive, probably more so than most. I also like heavy bullets and have no problem with a 45/70. A 338 federal DOES shoot 225 grain bullets. I loaded some last spring, before I had a chronograph so dont know the velocity but they were very accurate.
    I agree with the above statements. The 375 is more tolerable (for me) than 338s. Granted my 338 has a muzzlebreak on it, but others I have shot with the same stock as my 338 have proven to be quite a wallop. I actually like my shoulder and don't enjoy a mule kick to my shoulder so I will stay away from the RUMs

    IMO there is no better excuse to buy a 375 than drawing a bear tag. Heck I just applied for Kodiak brown bear and justified my need for one If I could do it all over again I would have gone with the 375 for all my wheeler and bear hunting and my 308 for all my backpack hunting for sheep, goats, caribou, and black bears. I would have skipped the 338 all together. That said if I could just have one rifle it would be in 338 over the other two and that was my thought back then, but I found that rifles tend to reproduce in my safe and before you know it you have more than just one go to rifle. Good luck in your search.

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    I would take the -06 because if your range for bullets. You could hunt 'bou's with 150 grainers, or you could hunt grizzlies with 220's. The advantage to a '06 has mild recoil, they are WAY cheaper than 300's or 338's ammo wise, they are REALLY common they don't break you bank, and you can get them for cheaper so you can spend more on a scope.

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    I have fired 400-500 or so Barnes 225 grain bullets through my Browning BAR .338.
    with 76 grains H4831, it chronies at 3011fps.
    on the other hand the BAR recoil is NOTHING related to the above chart.
    It recoils far less on my shoulder than my .264 Win Mag, shooting a Sierra 100 grain pushed by 72 grains H4831 at 3721fps.


    charts lists recoil of .338 (225) at 35.2; lists .264 (140) at 19.2....and I shoot 100 gr booolit
    just sayin....


    The BAR action reduces recoil by a HUGE margin.

  20. #20
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    had a client with a BAR 338 on kodiak for bear, jammed four times in a row...basicly the elements turned it into a single shot.
    now is where i hear "shot it tons never had a problem"...thats the same thing he said when it jammed.
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