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Thread: Want to Keep Dipnetting Limits the Same? Want to Dip from a Boat?

  1. #1
    Member RustyMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Want to Keep Dipnetting Limits the Same? Want to Dip from a Boat?

    I just heard this information on the radio and wanted to pass it on. As an Alaskan Native and resident fisherman these proposals blow my mind.

    Information from www.alaskadipnetting.com


    UPDATE 02/10/2011:
    ACTION ALERT:
    UCI Board of Fish meeting to take place from February 20th until March 5th,
    at the Egan Center, Anchorage.

    We need everybody who can break free to give public testimony, which will occur the first three days of the meeting. The comfishers will be out in force and if you don't want them getting the fish that you hope to put into your freezers, you need to show up and tell them to leave our fish alone. Please bring the kids, relatives and friends so they too, can give testimony on how much Alaskans want to be able to put fish in their freezers. All anybody needs to say is please leave our fish alone, we depend on those fish to help feed our families.

    A few of the proposals being decided are:

    1- No dipnetting from a boat on the Kenai, period. Just imagine how crowded the beaches will become?


    2- Cutting back the bag limit from 25, per head of household, and ten per each family member, to ten, per household, per year.


    3- Not allow dipnetting until the minimum escapement goal is met, which is about July 17th, not on the 10th of July when we are normally allowed to start dipping in the Kenai or June 25th, on the Kasilof. Can you just imagine how crowded those beaches will become, compared to how crowded they are now?


    4- Allow non- residents to dipnet too.


    5- Cut back both sport and Personal use to only ten % of the total take of salmon. The comfishers would catch and sell the rest. Both sport and PU fishers would lose half of their take from what we are allowed now.


    It sad that 750 commercial permits want 100 % of the resource, not the 85% they get now. How greedy can some people be? 80,000 Alaskans benefit from dipnetting here in UCI, let us not lose this fight over the resource and let the comfishers sell all of "OUR" fish.









    "Safety does not happen by accident, it's a choice"

  2. #2
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    sounds like hate speech to me.







    <edit> hey rusty it looks like you've caught 38 of "our" fish from all the bragging on your signature

    oh yeah and FYI any respectable native doesn't roll w/ PU, they're subsistence gathers remember?
    Last edited by fullbush; 02-16-2011 at 10:50. Reason: blah blah blah

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    Member RustyMonkey's Avatar
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    First of all fullbush, I am not trying to promote "hate speech". I am just passing on information I heard about proposals that were going to be voted on that directly impact the harvest of "our" natural resource. Please be useful to this thread by either posting contributing statements or respectfully hold your tongue (start another thread if you wish).

    FYI-if you would like to discuss my contributions to preserving the land and resources, the support of my family and elders and me being a "respectable native" then please feel free to PM me and we can discuss this in a more private format.

    Respectfully,

    Corey Tiedeman
    "Safety does not happen by accident, it's a choice"

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Heck, here are a few more.
    No retention of King salmon on the Kenai. Right now you are allowed one, per season
    Establish a harvest cap of 150,000 for the kenai. The mean is 204,000 now over a 15 year period.
    Set allocation of 100,000-150,000 sockeye in the Kenai. Again, the average is 204,000
    Prohibit possession of sport and personal use caught fish on the same day. So, say if you were on your way home from dipping and decided to stop at Centennial park or the Russion to make a few casts. Nope, Couldn't be done if this proposal passes. Better hope enough people show up to testify to convince the BOF to keep the Status Quo BTW, the commercial take this year in UCI was 2.78 million sockeye. That's fish, not pounds. The average take for the PU fishery is 278,000.
    BTW FB, Don't you fish PWS? Yea, I thought so. Ha-ha, just couldn't resist!!! Don't you know
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 02-16-2011 at 12:35. Reason: space cadet
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    How do they come up with these proposals? They certainly didn't come from any sane person.

  6. #6

    Default Here's the Proposals

    Don't let the 197 pages throw you.

    ~tr

  7. #7
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Comfishers have had two years and 10 months to think these things up. Remember, UCI only comes around in cycle, every three years. Wonder where the lame stream media is, as per our half Governor, Palin. She re-appointed two comfishers to their third term on the BOF. Sucking up to a moneyed up movement, per comfishers, does not say a lot. Money talks and sport/dipnetters will probably walk, not enough talk. Sorry to say. Palin just kept the status quo. Pay back to Comfishers cause her husband is one.

    The average Alaskan will take it in the shorts cause ADN and a lot of other news outlets, don't give a crap, what affects the average Alaskan. I sent in a compass piece two weeks ago and was promised that it was to be published by the outdoor writer, cause he was too busy to write something that would effect over 180,000 sport fishers and 80,000 Alaskans that benefit from dipnetting. But... Ain't seen it yet. So sad, very sad. These outlets are just trying to push their point of view, not what the Alaskan Joe would want to read about, what concerns "them".
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 02-16-2011 at 21:43. Reason: because I'm pissed, that's why
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Comfishers have had two years and 10 months to think these things up. Remember, UCI only comes around in cycle, every three years. Wonder where the lame stream media is, as per our half Governor, Palin. She re-appointed two comfishers to their third term on the BOF. Sucking up to a moneyed up movement, per comfishers, does not say a lot. Money talks and sport/dipnetters will probably walk, not enough talk. Sorry to say. Palin just kept the status quo. Pay back to Comfishers cause her husband is one.

    The average Alaskan will take it in the shorts cause ADN and a lot of other news outlets, don't give a crap, what affects the average Alaskan. I sent in a compass piece two weeks ago and was promised that it was to be published by the outdoor writer, cause he was too busy to write something that would effect over 180,000 sport fishers and 80,000 Alaskans that benefit from dipnetting. But... Ain't seen it yet. So sad, very sad. These outlets are just trying to push their point of view, not what the Alaskan Joe would want to read about, what concerns "them".
    Wow whop you pulled out all the key punchlines on this gem. 1st of all com-fishers have had a lot longer than 2 years and 10 months to think this up. They've been thinking about it since the dipnet travesty put them out of business in the 90's when the new dipnet fishery came about and wiped them out. Quit conveniently trying to slip the word "sports" in w/ your agenda, dipnetting is not a friend to sports fisheries, (remember you're always trying to get the subsistence classification, making you have priority over sport?). The Gov. Palin thing, thats just ridiculous, Todd Is a setnetter in the Nushigak river. That has nothing to do w/ how the Gov appointed BOF members, there is no allocation issues w/ BB setnet fish. Dude think about what you're saying here. The gillnetters of CI are probably being greedy, when they approach the board, just like your gear group. They are asking for more, knowing they won't get it but they're hoping for a little chunk back. Thats the approach people make when they ask for things, they ask for more knowing there will be mediation and when its over at the end of the day we all would hope that the outcome is fair and equitable for all. Really whop, think about this carefully. You say "average" Alaskan, what is an average Alaskan? There is a rampant homeless situation in Anchorage, people are filtering here from all over the world in droves, and a handful of weekenders that selfishly want to make the world stand still so they can get in their motorhomes and go participate in an age old tradition (since the 90's) of taking way more fish than anybody needs, because why again? Is the Kenai prepared for 300,000 dipnetters? Think it can handle it? Shoot you guys should have elected Fran Ulmer, she wanted to go back to fish traps so we could disperse the fish/profits equally like the dividend.

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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Comfishers have had two years and 10 months to think these things up. Remember, UCI only comes around in cycle, every three years. Wonder where the lame stream media is, as per our half Governor, Palin. She re-appointed two comfishers to their third term on the BOF. Sucking up to a moneyed up movement, per comfishers, does not say a lot. Money talks and sport/dipnetters will probably walk, not enough talk. Sorry to say. Palin just kept the status quo. Pay back to Comfishers cause her husband is one.

    The average Alaskan will take it in the shorts cause ADN and a lot of other news outlets, don't give a crap, what affects the average Alaskan. I sent in a compass piece two weeks ago and was promised that it was to be published by the outdoor writer, cause he was too busy to write something that would effect over 180,000 sport fishers and 80,000 Alaskans that benefit from dipnetting. But... Ain't seen it yet. So sad, very sad. These outlets are just trying to push their point of view, not what the Alaskan Joe would want to read about, what concerns "them".
    C'mon, Whop. Do you really think there's much of a chance that the Board's gonna stick it to you? I'll lay down a serious cash wager if you do...

    Look, I'll certainly agree with you that you always need to be involved, vigilant and never take anything for granted. Complacency can bite you in the hiney...and I commend you for helping spread the word and encouraging people to get involved.

    My guess is that the only significant, dipnet-related proposal that might...MIGHT, get some discussion would be the one dealing with chinook retention. Why? Because kings were never originally intended to be a target for this fishery, they've always been fully allocated (and hotly contested), and king runs almost everywhere are in the toilet. All good reasons to at least "look" at it in one form or another.

    Now, whether or not the Board makes a change regarding king retention is another matter...I said that it might get serious discussion. If KRSA and KRPGA are opposing that change (or are they mute?), it might not play...

    But, then again, I've been wrong before. I can't remember when, but I'm sure it happened at some point ;-)

    Art Nelson.

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    Member Derby06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fl View Post
    Don't let the 197 pages throw you.

    ~tr
    Thanks for posting the attachment gr8fl...

    Many of these "proposals" don't have a chance.

    1- I don't see than many of the "issues" can be substantiated. i.e. proposals 193 and 194; Personal use boats bother the beluga whales. Really, just the personal use boat motors, all the other boat motors out there both personal and commercial are what...special?

    2- Many of the "issues/likely to benefit/likely to suffer" are opinions that again can't be substantiated. i.e. proposal 197, 198, 199

    3- Many of the Proposals left "Other Solutions to be considered" blank. Really, your bright idea is the only way??? And the group or person that proposed the proposal didn't have multiple discussions on multiple Courses of Action before proposing this one..Whatever

    4- I don't see anyone on the persoal or commercial side supporting 174. The proposers, "The United Cook Inlet Drift Association" proposed it but in proposal 184 they are asking to decrease guidline harvest levels. Really Open it up to a Billion more people, BUT decrease numer of fish to be taken...BRILLIANT. I see many of this Association proposals are just there to muddy the waters so real issues aren't addressed. I better be careful, I googled them and first 2 links that popped up was lawsuits they had waged. I was looking for a home page to try and figure out just who these 'drifters' were... But all I could find was the had a meeting at the Americal Legion in Kenai back in June 2010. Never mind....Proposals 119 and 120 let me know who they are....
    Last edited by Derby06; 02-17-2011 at 09:32. Reason: Added spaces for ease of reading :)

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    AHA, I knew I would get a rise out of you guys!!! Gosh, I love this thing called the internet. I can reach out and put your panties in a wad, with just a few keyboard strokes. This is Fun!! Seriously, Just like FB says that you ask for me and expect to get less, well... I hyperventilate and embellish to get people to respond. It seems to be working
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I can reach out and put your panties in a wad, with just a few keyboard strokes.
    Thanks for the wedgie!

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Mr. Fish, I have received phone calls from the head of both of those organizations that they are against that proposal, dealing with King Retention. Both agree that the 800 that were caught last year is not a lot to be upset about. The Guide association told me that it would be like telling your neighbor that we can keep kings but you can't. KRSA also agrees that this is purely allocative in nature and not a biological issue. They also do not support this proposal because right now, it benefits "Alaskans". Still must be vigilant because it still is in play. Personally, I rarely retain Kings but that is solely my decision to make. When the resource is in danger, then all should be cut back by emergency order of either the BOF or the Commish of moose and goose, whoever has the authority to do so.
    I gave up sport fishing the Kenai when they changed it to 35 horsepower, years ago. But if I'm already down or someone else is there dipping, why waste more gas on a different day to catch a King by rod and reel? After all, I have a sport fishing license and I'm allowed by Regulation to retain 5 kings per year.
    When you look at all the dipnets out there during July, 800 is not a large number, in fact, it is below the average take of 1100 per year, caught in the dipnet fishery. There was an increase of 4500 dipnetting permits fished last year, compared to the yearly avarage of 23,000 permits for the last ten years. Yet the number of Kings caught went down, go figure? An increase in nets and still a decrease in numbers caught? A king in a dipnet is not a usual thing. I dipped for ten years before I finally netted a 20 pounder.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member TR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fl View Post
    Don't let the 197 pages throw you.

    ~tr
    Good stuff, Thanks.

    Prop 172 is not argued well. Require a personal use education class in order to get a permit. Fee based of course. The proposers claim there are non-compliance issues but do not specify what they are. They quote one Penisula Clarion article that complains about the number of people in the area during the season, not about violations of the dipnet rules. I figure the real point is to require the class in order to reduce the number of dippers.

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    TR, I know the guy and that was not his intent. He volunteers teaching hunting classes and thought an internet class might be a good thing. At least to impress upon people about sanitation/garbage issues, etc. Reminding people to be respectful of each other and the habitat. But I say you can't legislate morality or manners, no matter how hard you try. His idea behind it was purely wanting to clean the fishery up a little bit. Like in everything else, dippers have their fair share of slobs too
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 02-17-2011 at 11:12. Reason: spelling and fat fingers
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Agreed, do have our fair share of slobs and best method is to police ourselves.

    The number of dippers on the K beaches has increased over the last few years. I am warm to the idea of doing something to limit them. (I say THEM not US, but hey, that's me wanting more for me just like everyone else here getting twisted in a wad)

    Seriously, I favor opening other rivers. The Fish Creek openings have been nice. I got over half my 55 fish there last year. It kept me off the K beaches more than usual.

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    Member Derby06's Avatar
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    I might have a simple proposal...Just requires a little more enforcement, but guaranteed to slow things down after the first couple of years.
    ANY citation issued with respect to dipnetting prohibits the cited person or persons from dipnetting anywhere in the sate for the next 5 years. This includes littering destroying property, etc while entering, exiting, or staying in a dipnet area.
    Obviously needs a lot of word smithing, but you get the point.
    How many of us have seen folks leave without filling out cards, go over limits, not cut tails, etc... You start denying them 5 years for this on top of the citation, many will be temporarily banned and many will say its not woth the effort...

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Derby06 View Post
    I might have a simple proposal...Just requires a little more enforcement, but guaranteed to slow things down after the first couple of years.
    ANY citation issued with respect to dipnetting prohibits the cited person or persons from dipnetting anywhere in the sate for the next 5 years. This includes littering destroying property, etc while entering, exiting, or staying in a dipnet area.
    Obviously needs a lot of word smithing, but you get the point.
    How many of us have seen folks leave without filling out cards, go over limits, not cut tails, etc... You start denying them 5 years for this on top of the citation, many will be temporarily banned and many will say its not woth the effort...
    Great Idea!

  19. #19

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    Hey Whop, are you passing out SCADA wear at the meetings so we can have some visual impact?

  20. #20
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    I was just hoping to take the clothing away and make it a skinny dipping, clothing not allowed, type of meeting. Would probably get rid of a few comfishers, don't you know!!! LOL
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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