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Thread: The new BOG "Bear Conservation, Harvest, and Management Policy"

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default The new BOG "Bear Conservation, Harvest, and Management Policy"

    There are four days left to send in written comments to the Board of Game for the upcoming Region IV meeting in Wasilla.

    The final vote on the new Bear, Conservation, and Management Policy will happen at this meeting.

    I just wanted to inform everyone the gist of what this new policy will allow for, and why the Policy is being revised, is this part:
    To comply with AS 16.05.255 (“Intensive Management Law”), to maintain sustained yield management of wildlife populations, or to prevent populations of ungulates from declining to low levels, the Board may selectively consider changes to regulations allowing the public to take bears, including allowing the following:
    • Baiting of bears
    • Trapping, using foot-snares, for black bears under bear management or predator control programs.
    • Incidental takes of brown or grizzly bears during black bear management or predator control programs.
    • Use of communications equipment between hunters or trappers.
    • Sale of hides and skulls as incentives for taking bears.
    • Diversionary feeding of bears during ungulate calving seasons.
    • Use of black bears for handicraft items for sale, except gall bladders.
    • Use of grizzly bears for handicraft items for sale, except gall bladders.
    • Taking of sows accompanied by cubs and cubs.
    • Same-day-airborne taking.
    • Aerial shooting of bears by department staff in moose and caribou calving areas
    • Suspension or repeal of bear tag fees.
    • Use of helicopters for transporting hunters and their equipment.

    Basically, the Board is moving to in the future allow various methods and means to take bears that were only previously associated with bear "control" as part of a formal bear control implementation plan. So some of these methods and means, when and if they are allowed, like the taking of sows with cubs and cubs, helo transport of "hunters," trapping of both black and grizzly bears using foot snares, baiting of grizzly bears etc, can be done under a general hunting management scenario.

    Everyone has opinions on this new Policy. I personally think it is a bad move, and opens the door too wide for any future Board to do a lot of things that will in the end hurt hunting and hunters and the perception of who we are and what we stand for. The Board has had absolutely no problem instituting bear control programs under the existing framework using a formal bear control implementation plan submitted by the Department and approved by the Board. And the Board has in the past been very clear that many of these methods and means have nothing to do with fair chase "hunting," that they did not want the public to confuse what was hunting and what was control.

    This new policy completely goes in the other direction if these things are allowed under a general hunting mgmt scheme outside a formal bear control implementation plan.

    Okay, the full Policy can be found in the proposal book. It is the very last proposal at the end of the book. You can download the full file here:
    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...central-sw.pdf

    If you would like to comment on this and other proposals, you can mail or fax comments:
    ATTN: Board of Game Comments
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game
    Boards Support Section
    P.O. Box 115526
    Juneau, AK 99811-5526
    Fax: 907-465-6094

    Best to all,

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i hope i never see us stoop to shooting sows and cubs just to boost moose numbers for us to shoot. I know some may feel different about managing for maximum yield, but eradicating bears or wolves to do it, to me is a bad move. And black eyes hunters with serious selfish hunter syndrom. I like wild game meat, but not really at the expense of shooting moms and babies, something ingrained in me i suppose. i accept the regulations we have and everytime i go hunt, i realize full well i might not get a moose. and thats that. i don't feel i should rely on fish and game to kill more bears off to help my chances on getting moose.
    Now, closing moose season AND implementing some bear control in a specific area i might be able to get on board with....or just changing the moose regulations so we don't shoot the yearlings...those i think would be steps to be taken before we start off with a "kill 'em all, any way we can" mentality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    ".... but eradicating bears or wolves to do it, to me is a bad move...". - "...moms and babies,.." - "kill 'em all, any way we can" .
    Regardless of what policy the "board" may implement the public will be free to NOT participate in the taking of cubs. I've apparently "missed" the part of the proposed policy dealing with the "eradicating [ion] of bears or wolves". Unfortunately, the rhetoric such as "kill 'em all" or statements implying the management goal is "eradication" has been a major impediment to the implementation of objective management policies.
    Joe

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    Thanks for the heads-up on this.

    I see this these as some of the worst policies that could be dreamed up.

    If adopted these policies would go a long way to destroying the credibility of hunters and reducing support of hunting among non-hunters. Legalizing the sale of hides and skulls and bear parts for commercializing other bear parts through sale of "handicraft items" would encourage poaching and make enforcement of game laws more difficult. There is very little that could give hunting a worse name than instituting the taking of sows with cubs and cubs.

    Use of helicopters for transporting "hunters" and equipment? The worst of the worst of slob "hunting" in my opinion. Why don't we just legalize a set-up of video cameras on bait stations with remotely controlled firearms and let people shoot from their computers without ever having to leave their easy chairs? We could auction off the shots and generate tons of cash for more "game management".

    These are not game management techniques. They are game commercialization measures - measures that will make it possible to "sell" more "hunts" to the inexperienced, pampered rich who don't want to have to exert themselves to get a "trophy" through fair chase. Why not just go ahead and legalize the sale of bear gall bladders along with all other bear parts. They WILL be sold in even greater numbers if these policies are adopted, so why not just acknowledge reality. It'd save a lot of otherwise wasted enforcement dollars.

    I cannot adequately express my disgust that Alaska's Board of Game has descended to this level. They are not practicing scientific management. They are selling our wildlife down the river for the benefit of commercial interests. Alaska was once THE place where game management was based on science and one of, if not THE, last best place on earth to experience fair chase hunting. The best professionals from all over the world longed to work for ADF&G because Alaska did scientific not political game management.

    We're becoming pathetic.

    Rant over.

  5. #5

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    The Flip Side of the Coin:
    Moose/Caribou are Meat
    Bears are Hides
    This is how it is, for the preponderance of hunters in Alaska.
    Hunters across America are used to shooting "moms and babies", so the Blackeye Deal just doesn't pass the Common Sense Test. Shootfire, even up here, hunters take huge numbers of Cows and Calves...all in the name of "Prudent Game Management"...Why not Cubs???
    The Basic changes are needed to curb the number of hoops the Dept has to jump thru each and every time an area needs to be intensively managed...the delays in meeting past practices have resulted in further compounding the problems, instead of addressing them in a timely manner.
    The Anti's have learned to stall the process' are every juncture, by demanding more studies...yada yada...actually driving the train from the caboose.
    The Dept needs the Basic Changes to best serve the Wildlife...
    We as hunters should be embracing the needed changes and recognize those that want to derail hunting, as we know it.
    It's Ok to kill Sows/Cubs...just as it is OK to kill Cows/Calves...it's OK...
    The Sky Ain't Falling guys and gals.
    Hopefully all Alaskan's will voice their concerns for the Wildlife and support the efforts of the BOG and ADF&G in making these needed changes to Regulation and Policy.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    If one were to stand back far enough and observe the problem for a position of total objectivity, there could only be one clear conclusion as to the true nature of the problem. However we shall agree to not talk about that.

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    "i don't feel i should rely on fish and game to kill more bears off to help my chances on getting moose."

    Well BB, you have a lot of credibility as you are one of the few guys out there keeping the numbers of predators reasonable in the Nelchina Basin so that I can feed my family game meat. There just arent enough of you. I agree we need to be sensitive cause pictures of bears in traps or dead cubs will give everyone a black eye. But finding and harvesting predators in a timely and cost effective manner is tough as you are seeing. Maybe a bounty would also be in bad taste but something to help offset the costs and time of you guys helping to keep us in caribou. I am not sure the cost of fur is enough incentive. Maybe we also should examine what other countries do also. I mean in Canada they use helicopters to harvest sheep so our using them for predator control isnt that extreme. And Chessie, we got to somehow keep predator numbers reasonable if we want to eat wild game so come up with some ideas or go shoot some yourself!! Its not commercial interests that are at stake, its long term Alaskan residents like us who like to eat wild meat!
    “I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. “ Fred Bear

  8. #8

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    It is important for us to keep the issue in perspective:
    The fact is that most Alaskan's are not like BB, Lodge Owners or some of the Bush Dwellers, whereas someone else is paying the tab's for them being out there.
    Most Alaskan's go afield in pursuit of game, a few times a year...on their own dime.
    Most Alaskan's go afield wanting and expecting to bring home game meat....few go out there with the lackadaisical attitude of "oh well, if I get a moose that is fine...but if I don't...oh well"...Meat in the freezer is too important to most Alaskan's to adopt that attitude.
    Yes...We need to support the efforts of the BOG and the ADF&G.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Looking back through old threads, wasn't it you, AKRES, that said the current BOG is no friend of yours (ours or anyones, any Alaskan) when they did not support your view/opinion???
    Now you want to support their efforts 'cause they may support your agenda!!
    Ibex

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If folks can eat McDonalds they can Damm sure eat bear.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Not much of a difference between shooting a cow moose or a sow bear. Kinda like what AKres had to say. Either way your removing a female from the population that prevents them from contributing future calves or cubs. Plus the BOG isn't saying they're going to use all these measures just putting them on the block for possibilities. They never said they would use all them in combination either. They are setting these as possibilities that managers can choose from to limit bear and wolf populations in some areas.
    I will agree somewhat with what some people are saying about killing off predators to maximize moose and caribou populations, because eventually the majority of Alaskans will have to change their mindsets of 'I gotta fill my freezer'. There are too many people in AK (700,000) and growing for everyone to fill their freezer. Too many KP residents have the attitude of gotta fill my freezer and now we have less than 10 bulls per 100 cows on the southern peninsula. Now not many of these people will be able to fill their freezer when seasons are closed or legal antler configurations changed to allow for significantly less harvest.
    Plus lets face it the area biologists will have the final say in what methods are allowed for your area, so if you aren't happy with a certain hunting method go to your local area biologist and explain your viewpoint.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    "The fact is that most Alaskan's are not like BB, Lodge Owners or some of the Bush Dwellers, whereas someone else is paying the tab's for them being out there.
    Most Alaskan's go afield in pursuit of game, a few times a year...on their own dime."

    Kinda a cheap shot there akres, i'm not out hunting moose or anything that provides my family with meat. its my job, i'm helping with the bears the best i can.
    I still go hunt deer on my own dime...
    just saying that the regs are getting liberated to kill as many bears as possible..or at least they are leaning that way. not saying it will work, but the mind set is there. unit 16 was the first to go...unit 13 is next? why those...because of more pressure for people to go out and get a moose, cause "their own dime" deserves a moose?!

    and a cow moose and calf...one year then booted calf....sow grizzly, three years for the cubs, they aren't the same.
    "
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    The Dept needs the Basic Changes to best serve the Wildlife...
    We as hunters should be embracing the needed changes and recognize those that want to derail hunting, as we know it.
    You're not fooling anybody Res. You aren't the least interested in best serving wildlife. You are interested in serving an agenda and serving selfish interests. The fact that prudent management is at odds with your agenda doesn't phase you a bit. The sad thing is, this mismanagement is going to affect Alaskan hunting for decades.

    You're right about one thing tho, more hunters need to recognize people like you who are trying to derail hunting and management as we know it.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollybug View Post
    finding and harvesting predators in a timely and cost effective manner is tough as you are seeing.
    What's wrong with liberalizing bag limits and hunting time Solly? Why not let the guys who like to hunt bears and other predators and are successful at it get more opportunities? You know kind of like the deer limit in Kodiak goes up and down depending on how the herd is doing? Why over-react? And why shoot ourselves in the foot as far as our image as a whole goes?
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    "The fact is that most Alaskan's are not like BB, Lodge Owners or some of the Bush Dwellers, whereas someone else is paying the tab's for them being out there.
    Most Alaskan's go afield in pursuit of game, a few times a year...on their own dime."

    Kinda a cheap shot there akres, i'm not out hunting moose or anything that provides my family with meat. its my job, i'm helping with the bears the best i can.
    I still go hunt deer on my own dime...
    just saying that the regs are getting liberated to kill as many bears as possible..or at least they are leaning that way. not saying it will work, but the mind set is there. unit 16 was the first to go...unit 13 is next? why those...because of more pressure for people to go out and get a moose, cause "their own dime" deserves a moose?!

    and a cow moose and calf...one year then booted calf....sow grizzly, three years for the cubs, they aren't the same.
    "
    Not intended as a "cheap shot"...but it did sorta come across as such...my apologies. What I had hoped to convey was, the fact that most Alaskan's are Meat Hunters first and foremost. Predators for the most part are taken opportunistically by the preponderance of the population. Also very few Alaskan's hunt predators year in and year out...How many rugs does a guy need at a $1K or more a pop?...unlike yourself, whereas someone is paying you to make it happen. It is a rare Alaskan that goes out and kills a limit of predators each and every year...on their own dime.
    Economics is a huge factor in the decision for most...I think...whether to support the goal or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    You're not fooling anybody Res. You aren't the least interested in best serving wildlife. You are interested in serving an agenda and serving selfish interests. The fact that prudent management is at odds with your agenda doesn't phase you a bit. The sad thing is, this mismanagement is going to affect Alaskan hunting for decades.

    You're right about one thing tho, more hunters need to recognize people like you who are trying to derail hunting and management as we know it.
    Surely you know by now, I will speak out against the BOG and ADF&G when they have erred for political reasons...and you know I have supported them when sound biological/rational changes are necessary. For some to suggest we continue on the path of managing man and not wildlife...is a pretty shortsighted mindset...imo. For once, we now have an opportunity to manage game...we should sieze it.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    no worries akres, most ak folk are meat hunters and will spend the money to do that. but when it comes time to takin' part it cullin' some bears...where are they? like you said, not there. but just hopin' out of staters will keep forkin' out the coin to keep killing some bears. but when the non res and res don't get it done..the BOG starts up with this possible "lists" of things they might or can do.
    How many 1k rugs does a guy need...about as many of those as you do dead cubs just to boost moose numbers...
    two pots in the woods, and the vast majority are just dippin' outa one and worried cause the others too full! rather than dip both...
    kudo's to the guys who are out hunting bears in hopes of making a difference without having to go to liberalized methods and means for the bears....
    wantj, sorry for using the rehtoric of kill em all, or eradication. i musta got confused when i saw no bag limit listed and basicly no restrictions on killing any bear with just about any means...that must mean something different. my lack of eduction has again kept me from using the proper english.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    "...wantj, sorry for using the rehtoric of kill em all, or eradication. i musta got confused when i saw no bag limit listed and basicly no restrictions on killing any bear with just about any means...that must mean something different. my lack of eduction has again kept me from using the proper english..."
    I can't address the "education" aspect, however, it is my understanding the BOG already had the authority to regulate bag limits. Regarding "...killing any bear with just about any means...", I didn't see poisons listed. Given that during the last big predator control program poisons were authorize (still didn't kill them "all") I suspect that much of the current concern has more to do with agendas than the resource.
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    I can't address the "education" aspect, however, it is my understanding the BOG already had the authority to regulate bag limits. Regarding "...killing any bear with just about any means...", I didn't see poisons listed. Given that during the last big predator control program poisons were authorize (still didn't kill them "all") I suspect that much of the current concern has more to do with agendas than the resource.
    Joe
    Joe,

    I don't know about agendas and such, but what concerns me about this is opening the door to the use of helicopters to transport hunters, the use of foot snares (which do not discriminate very well between bears and other large species such as moose), shooting sows and sows with cubs, and cubs, sale of bear parts, aerial shooting of bears... What are we thinking here? And you and I both know why poisons were not listed. It was a disaster the last time.

    Isn't this effort targeted at GMU 16B, where there is ample evidence of moose recovery already? Why are we kicking this into high gear now?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Most meat hunters in Alaska will eat meat even if they don't shoot game.Some in Alaska meat eaters(non city folk) don't eat meat unless they bag it or a neighbor does
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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