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Thread: Brown Bear vs Grizzly

  1. #1

    Default Brown Bear vs Grizzly

    Besides the size difference what are the differences in the HUNT between the two bears?

    How would the two hunts differ?
    More walking?
    Better chance at a Brown or grizzly?
    Which one would offer better chances at other game?
    Are the prices different?

    I would be interested in any other information as well.

    Thanks Matt

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    Grizzly or Brown its the same animal....various maps give different ranges, various terrain.... but truly, by walking a bit, A Grizz can become a Brown and back again.......if you get the right maps, you can have both at the same time, same place, same animal.

    Just wait a minute, an expert is logging on.......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member mekaniks's Avatar
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    Brown bear or Grizzly- it dosent matter. I have seen them on the coast, in the interior, and on Kodiak. Some are big, some are small, some have bad attitudes, some are hungry, but really most just want to stay away from you. Some biologist will say there is a difference and some keyboard hunting experts will have lots of ideas, theorys, and BS... At the end of the day, IMO.... they are the same bear. The only real difference is the area you want to hunt. If you want a combo hunt decide what the other species is ( caribou, blacktail, muskox, black bear) and go from there. The bear hunts only really differ by the terrain and distance from a local you are hunting, and not by the brown bear species....

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    Exactly they are the same bear,coastal bears grow larger because they eat salmon

    But the hunt for a grizzly or coastal bear is pretty much the same thing

    Quote Originally Posted by mekaniks View Post
    Brown bear or Grizzly- it dosent matter. I have seen them on the coast, in the interior, and on Kodiak. Some are big, some are small, some have bad attitudes, some are hungry, but really most just want to stay away from you. Some biologist will say there is a difference and some keyboard hunting experts will have lots of ideas, theorys, and BS... At the end of the day, IMO.... they are the same bear. The only real difference is the area you want to hunt. If you want a combo hunt decide what the other species is ( caribou, blacktail, muskox, black bear) and go from there. The bear hunts only really differ by the terrain and distance from a local you are hunting, and not by the brown bear species....

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    Matt, as a bio major, there is a difference, it mostly consist of dietary,size and behavior differences, they are considered the same species just different subspecies. interior bears or grizzly can get big, but generaly are smaller than coastal or brown bears, they also for the most part have different hide characteristics, most interior bears have a pretty multitone coat color less present in coastal bears. there are places that both bears can be found, and hunted as they are the same speicies they can breed together and feed ultimately on the same foods so salmon spawning streams are a common area for both. interior bears because of food supply will travel greater distances for food and a wider variety, when fish are spawning or if there are fish they will be there, up north there are fewer salmon runs so calveing season and berry crops are more important, they also feed on smaller rodents,moths and anything else that they can obtain calories from, coastal bears have it much easier, they gorge on salmon all summer a graze on coastal sedges, hence the size variance due to food supply, for generations and thousands of years the variance has divided them by region. if youre a resident theres a huge price difference for most areas, if you hunt up north or most of the interior transporters wont charge you for a bear, with paymnet of a sheep,moose or bou hunt, but if you are soley looking for just a bear it can run as low as $800 and up to 2k, ide do a combo and get that the multispecies combo. nothing is guranteed and you may not see a thing, but that just hasnt been my case yet on a fly out, as far as the rd system, youer odds for anything drop to nill, youre best chance is to get out off the rd system away from the atvs and rd warriors, as most coastal bears are draw hunts youre odds are stacked better for a interior hunt, unless you travel to the west coast of alaska, sw or some areas in se and then all youre odds are better(because of draws). if you draw a kodiak tag or do a reg. hunt you could be looking at a pricey hunt starting from the mainland, i would say it would cost no less than $1500 for me from anchorage, the better you transpotation the higher the cost, i dont know if i got my tag for kodiak yet, but fully excpect on paying about $3500 for everything. IMO coastal bear hunts are mostly easier than interor hunts, due soley to terrain, but thats not to say a coastal hunt is easy at all, basicaly if you want a better shot at a big bear look into coastal areas,if you dont care, then let the other species you hunt decide on where you hunt, there are even some units with a 2 bear limit. now if youre a non resident, then be sure when you book a guide what kind of bears they have been takeing and if they charge any addition fees after the kill like transport weight.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by encore4me View Post
    Besides the size difference what are the differences in the HUNT between the two bears?

    How would the two hunts differ? brown bear in salmon streams - ambush hunting could happen. griz and brown elsewhere is spot and stalk.
    More walking? griz interior could have a lot of walking. spring bears could be a lot of snowshoeing. coastal brown will be a lot of brush busting,which is not walking per se, but bears a resemblance to what walking is.
    Better chance at a Brown or grizzly? all depends on where you are at. if on a salmon stream you have a pretty good chance.
    Which one would offer better chances at other game?interior griz for moose and caribou while floating.
    Are the prices different? a multi species hunt will cost much more than a single species hunt.

    I would be interested in any other information as well.

    Thanks Matt
    thats about it.

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    Heres a thought/truth.....Alaska is riddled with Salmon rivers and streams, right through to Canada..... Theres even Chum at Barrow nowdays.......when the Salmon are up those rives spawning in the interior, theres barely any at the Coast. As someone who fishes for Salmon every summer, sometimes by the coast, sometimes upriver, welll thats a well known fact......Almost all BrownGrizz eat Salmon, no matter where they are in the state, but the biomass is moving up those rivers to feed interor browngrizz in the shallows, maby more than the deeper lower river or river mouths.
    Fawning is in Spring, and the Caribou drop them in mass to fill up the predators. An important Spring feed, but hardly a dietary boost to be bigger that others in size.

    Could the diff be that in Alaskas vastness, that the winters lack of daylight up north and the longer days of the southern region allow the more Southern Bears more time to eat and less time hibernating than their northern cousins....or that less harsh conditions long the coast allow less energy expendature, and therefore larger bodys size......??


    Maps make the difference between the two, simpley because theres nothing biologicly different when the same animal crosses an imaginary line on a map and "Morph's" form one to another......~~LOL!!~~

    If you want to hunt Brown Bear, you must consult the maps.........I think the idea passed here that if you want another animal, base your hunt on that animal, and pack for Bear....they are everywhere......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    they act different...hands down, they act different. hides are different, seems their disposition is different. hunt them the same. loads of glassing, success seems to be about the same, weather tends to be a little gentler on the grizzly hunts, more ground to glass, unless your working the south end of the ak peninsula..thats some open country.
    grizzly hunts are generally cheaper depending on the outfitter.
    grizz hunts don't seem as intense.
    when your brown bear hunting the bears your looking at might range from 7-10 foot, a 3 foot range, typically grizzly will be between 7-8 foot for the most part. so your more hide hunting rather than just shooting a number on the tape measure.
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    You say they act differently BRWNBR, could you elaborate on this?

    How about the hunters? Is hunting a more expensive Bear more exciting?

    Peoples attitudes change when the arrive in Alaska, prehaps its the same when a Grizz walks himself into being a Brown Bear or do you plainly see a difference, and can call (identify) a Grizz when you see it in Brown Bear country? And reverse? From your posts I see you take people to hunt both areas.

    Serious questions there, but onna lighter side, "but" This might be 'Why' the Bear went over the Mountain........~~LOL!!~~
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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  10. #10

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    Guess I don't "know" the difference between brown bears and grizzlies. From the standpoint of behavior (either on our part or that of the bears) I see no difference between animals we encountered on Kodiak or in the Brooks Range or the Alaska Range. Changes in size, as reflected in "skull totals" are gradual and show very distinct pattern trends. Certainly coastal animals tend to be larger than those found further from the coast, however, that characteristic applies to most mammals found in Alaska. That being said a difference in skull/length ratios can probably de demonstrated between bears from GMU 08 and GMUs 9/de.
    Joe

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    while my experiences have been different than mrwants,i'll say grizzly in the area i work, tend to me much more skittish than brown bears at leas those on kodiak, cordova, dillingham, ak peninsula. it seems that brown bears might "think" more or act that way, possibly due to more human interaction thruout their lives. grizzly where i'm at seem more like whitetail, edgy, jumpy and scared of just about anything, seen caribou run grizzly's off and black bears too for that matter. but brown bears seem to be more of a tactiction..moving with more purpose, sometimes you can push a brownie outa brush patch and he'll move off slow, stopping to see whats in the brush...grizzly in my experience exit the brush patch in a hurry, never looking back.

    I don't know about hunting a more expensive "bear", never seen a bear with a price tag.

    I've had bears in the area i'm in in june that come thru and look like brown bears, usually right in front of them is a grizzly, seen smaller grizzly boars right behind a brown bear following a sow grizzly. Hides on grizzly apear glossier to me, mabye from a diet heavier in berries. Just body appreance seems different, mabye i can't put my finger on a specific reason, but going back and forth between the two a couple times in the same year it seems to me that a difference is noticable.
    just my .02....
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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    good post jake...experiences differ

    if you ask sci and boone and crokett the large chunk of western alaska i currently hunt in has both...grizzly and brown. theyre the same bears to me, for the most part living in various drainages that feed our two largest river systems....all fish fed, with slight differences in the amount of den time being the only real difference. body size up closer to the yukon differs a touch but skull size seems to hold...making those particular "grizzlies" some of the very largest in our state. if you care about the books and record holdings then you care about the difference...if ya dont, you proly dont care what your bear is called. obviously for record keeping purposes the brown/grizzly bears adaptablility to differnet wild environs makes it fluctuate greatly in size...so its always been an effort to establish some sort of line for trophy hunters...is it correct? not in some instances it seems...can i think of a better system? no

    classically a "grizzly" hunt entails more walking, steeper country, less concentrated and smaller bears, sheep country always in sight....

    a brown bear "hunt " classically entails less walking, horrible weather, much glassing, more seen bears and coastal clime, with the hopefull potential for finding a true giant....

    both hunts can be as far from classic as possible depending upon the area one hunts in and the methods in which he hunts...bears live in all of our great states varied enviroments ...call em whatever you want, they remain one of the hunters of our worlds most sought after species.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    ..moving with more purpose, sometimes you can push a brownie outa brush patch and he'll move off slow, stopping to see whats in the brush..."



    I've had bears in the area i'm in in june that come thru and look like brown bears, usually right in front of them is a grizzly, seen smaller grizzly boars right behind a brown bear following a sow grizzly. Hides on grizzly apear glossier to me, mabye from a diet heavier in berries. Just body appreance seems different, mabye i can't put my finger on a specific reason, but going back and forth between the two a couple times in the same year it seems to me that a difference is noticable.
    just my .02....
    In my experience the "..move[ing] off slow[ly] and stopping to see whats in the brush..." is typical behavior for mature boars, regardless of where I've had the encounters. It is a behavioral characteristic that has enabled us to take a number of good mature males by using methods that are certainly less successful when tried on younger animals.
    In the area(s) you are hunting, you are seeing bears that can be identified as "grizzlies" and others that can be identified as brown bears?
    Hope your spring goes well - will you be attending the BGCSB meeting in March?
    Joe

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i would say i see both kinds of bears in the area i'm working...more so in late spring, and hardly ever in the fall.
    no i won't make the march meeting this year. just missed the dec meeting, but talked with mayne K. for a while about it to try and catch up. why do you ask?
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    no i won't make the march meeting this year. just missed the dec meeting, but talked with mayne K. for a while about it to try and catch up. why do you ask?
    Just thought you might put on a workshop regarding the differences between brown and grizzly bear. Without question there would be a great amount of interest. If things change and you can make the meeting please let me know.
    Joe

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    Well, interersting as this all is, and in the interest of sorting this out, I looked up th e offical version of the truth~~LOL!!!~~

    Brown bears (Ursus arctos), also known as grizzlies, occur throughout Alaska except on islands south of Frederick Sound in southeast Alaska, west of Unimak in the Aleutian Chain, and Bering Sea islands. They also occur in Russia, northern China, northern Japan, Europe, western Canada, and in limited portions of the northwestern United States. Brown bears symbolize Alaska as depicted on the back of the state quarter and on the state flag (Ursa Major The Big Dipper). They are also important to Native Alaskans, local residents, hunters, fishers, photographers, and hikers.

    heres the rest;
    http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/not...me/brnbear.php

    anyway, its a rather debatable deal here.

    Hunting Brown Bears in the mountains, and Grizz by the coast .........

    Common', BRWNBR....."grizzly hunts are generally cheaper depending on the outfitter.
    /I don't know about hunting a more expensive "bear", never seen a bear with a price tag."

    You ARE a guide, aint ya? Ya, I'm ribbin' ya, but you get paid, Bear or not ~~LOL!!~~ the trip itself, and the Bear down getting a further trophy fee, tips..

    Hmmm...... is it that a "Brown Bear" is Brown, and a Grizz not?
    Does darker color , attitude and size come with maturity, maby a Grizz grow up to be a Brown?

    Are maby open area Browngrizz Bears more skittish than heavy brushbound Bears?

    In open country, Ive watched Browngrizz run miles to get into cover...
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Well, interersting as this all is, and in the interest of sorting this out, I looked up th e offical version of the truth~~LOL!!!~~
    ..
    I thought we had "resolved" this whole brown/grizzly bear issue about fifty years ago - apparently some haven't either read or received the memo - no difference.. The joke of the era was "if we let him go for another fifty yards will probably be a new "world record". Was absurd then - and is absurd now.
    Joe

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    Shuks, Wantj, I wasnt alive 50 years ago, ..........8 years later, I probly would'a burp'd up a respons, of sorts, while it was explaind to me......~~LOL!!~~

    I honestly thought there was a chance, a slight one even, that there was a difference, other than terrain, climate and diet....all very veriable and all, depending , ofcourse , which way they walk...... but yet, were stuck with the same animal.........and truly, maby different attitudes and ways of going about things...

    A read some Bears are specialists, in the likes of Fishing, Hunting Muskoxen or Moose....they get good at stuffs.....

    Ok, just walkin' away slow like.....thumbs in my pocket ....head down,... kickin a can......
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Everybody knows you need to go to Unalakleet to shoot a record grizzly off the beach They sure look like brown bears to me
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Shuks, Wantj, I wasnt alive 50 years ago, ..........8 years later, I probly would'a burp'd up a respons, of sorts, while it was explaind to me......~~LOL!!~~

    I honestly thought there was a chance, a slight one even, that there was a difference, other than terrain, climate and diet....all very veriable and all, depending , ofcourse , which way they walk...... but yet, were stuck with the same animal.........and truly, maby different attitudes and ways of going about things...

    A read some Bears are specialists, in the likes of Fishing, Hunting Muskoxen or Moose....they get good at stuffs.....

    Ok, just walkin' away slow like.....thumbs in my pocket ....head down,... kickin a can......
    ...lol, thanks stranger, i can always count on you to make me grin...love that last line.

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