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Thread: Cleaning at the Range Bench, How Indepth ??

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Cleaning at the Range Bench, How Indepth ??

    I am still scrubbing out Copper after a recent range session,
    60 rounds of Nosler Accubonds, in three hours or so.

    This is the most Copper I have encountered yet, did the Barrel break-in on this Sako .270wsm when brand new, usually cleans up easy and quick, have just over a thousand rounds fired through it,

    I'm wondering how in depth do you guys take Barrel cleaning while at the range ??

    I sent one Butch's patch and two dry, down the barrel after every ten rounds or so,

    On the last batch of twenty, I think accuracy was affected by either Barrel Heat, (it was 30F, and I tried to wait but there was a cumulative heating that I had not the patience for I guess toward the end of the sixty)
    or more likely by the copper I found in there at home later.

    How do you experienced guys approach this, I'll be stickin to a max of forty in the future, and thinking of a better cleaning procedure, maybe brushing, and a more aggressive Copper remover (?)

    the third patch was coming out pretty clean, of powder fouling anyway,
    What d'ya think ??

    Working on Reloading Stats, looking for the best accuracy picture I can get
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    generally after the break-in proceedure i can fire 100 rounds before accuracy begins to suffer. shooting competition requires a smooth bore, and i have had great good luck with my remington, shilen and lilja barrels.

    start with a bore guide and using a copper cleaner like barnes cr-10 or sweets, run patches until no green ( copper ) shows, then scrub your bore with jb paste. start with 15-20 passes, then clean with a standard solvent inspect your bore, especially the muzzle area, and if any copper is present do it again.

    after the through cleaning run a patch with oil, then dry patch.

    NOW, fire a string of 10 shots and reexamine your bore........you should see a major improvement.
    happy trails.
    jh

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    Hello ADQrain...I'll tell you what I do at the range, but I should first make a disclaimer...I'm definately on the meticulous/methodical side of the fence when it comes to keeping my bores clean and I have been criticized for it in the past...I'll probably catch some flak here as well.

    I don't shoot competitively, so I never shoot 60 rounds through any quality centerfire rifle in one sitting at the range, and pushing one wet patch through the bore after 20 doesn't come close to getting it clean (which you found out). I'll usually bring more than one rifle and cap it at 20 rounds for a quality centerfire rifle. I even let the barrel cool before it gets hot...I'm one of those guys. I clean my rifles when I'm at home, unless I'm breaking-in a new barrel. That said, I'll shoot my mini-14 until the barrel is hot and beyond, and I'll push 100+ rounds through my rimfires and pistols without a second thought. However, a quality centerfire rifle (like your Sako) is a different story for me.

    You're using Butch's boreshine, which is a great product and my primary bore cleaner. Letting it sit for 15 minutes in the bore (no more) makes it work even better. I've used JB paste in the past with a used rifle that had never been cleaned properly by the previous owner...that stuff gets it done. However, it is a abrasive and I wouldn't use it regularly unless you have to. If you can't get that bore back to break-in clean, I'd use Wipe-out before JB paste. Wipe-out is a miracle product IMO.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I like to shoot alot, and I value my time. Hence I've adopted the following practice. I never clean at the range, and I only clean after accuracy has fallen off. On the rifles I shoot molyed bullets, I haven't seen the accuracy go off even with 300-500 rounds through them. If it shoots 1/2", why clean?

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Paul H, that's amazing, maybe wish I was that way, but I am much more like the Doc, and Pineshaven on this one, can't imagine looking down the muzzle and seeing visible copper laying in the rifleing without needing to get it out.

    I am only looking at about a 1/2 inch decrease in accuracy, so probably overkilling it, but I was comparing three different powders, same bullet, so it was noticeable, and I was being PICKY
    Then Personally, something about rifle cleaning to me is "time well spent" kinda therapeutic or something, I don't mind it at all.

    This last time, I wanted to go thru three sets of twenty, 60rds in one range session, one rifle so figured bringing the cleaning rod along would help me wait for it to cool. So, I ran three patches every nine rounds or so. Definitely cleaned some crud out but wasn't touching the copper that was accumulating, apparently. Hence the question, Copper remover to the bench, or stop shooting earlier? Clean at home

    I guess I am on the more meticulous (maybe to the pt of crazy ?) side of things, but it goes like this,

    "If I am loading for that "hunting round," that will fly out of a Cold Clean Barrel (maybe fouled by one shot pre hunt if I remember)
    I should develop the load by duplicating those conditions as best I can, right ?"

    Anyway, thanks for the tips guys, looks like I've got it pretty darn clean now, wasn't easy, but hopefully will stay that was by more (or less) "careful" range time.
    Wishin' I lived in Anch or nearby about now, as I am running out of Butch's, now reduced to what I can find which for copper is only Hoppes Copper Solvent (didn't work very well in comparison to Butchs) and some stuff at Mack's called 1shot copper remover I think ?

    So, I'll be ordering some more Butchs or Sweets, maybe some Wipe-out, unless they don't send those in the mail, then it will be wait til I am up in the city again,....
    Butch's is pretty amazing stuff tho, (the JB's makes me a little nervous, what I've read anyway)
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    ADQrain...

    If you can't get the products that you need on the rock, you can mix 50/50 Hoppes#9 & Kroil penetrating oil. Get your bore as clean as you can, then push a soaked patch and place your rifle in a corner, muzzle down on a couple of folded paper towels. Let it stand all day then push some dry patches through it. The paper towel will have a green ring on it after the day long cycle, and the patches will have green from the copper as well. Then do it again and let it stand all night, running dry patches in the morning. Keep repeating the all day/all night cycle until the copper is out. It works, but it may take a few days and nights to get there. Wipe-Out overnight is so much better.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I used to clean down to bare metal after every range session. But then I started shooting more and more, and heard from folks that rarely cleaned their bores, and decided to see how that worked for me. I've found excessive cleaning simply isn't needed to maintain accuracy. I also firmly believe that more you run a rod down the bore, the greater risk you have from wearing and damaging the bore.

    When I do want to get to bare metal, I alternate JB compound and Barnes CR-10. No more blue patches from the barnes, and I know I'm squeeky clean.

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    KR,
    If I am shooting for accuracy - meaning working up a load, I will usually shoot a string of 9 - 12 - wipe with a copper cleaning solution,
    run a cpl dry patches and repeat with a new string of loads. Then repeat at home and add lube on next to last clean patch.
    I am not sure the overall gains or minus's, but I have had some first shot flyers after cleaning that I am not sure it it was me or the cleaning process???
    I have a 300wm that has had probably 1000 rounds thru it now and just this past summer I used copper solvent for the first time- got a lot of color outa the bbl but truthfully I am not sure I saw any difference in its accuracy at anytime before or after... has always been 1in - 1.5 in grouper....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    I used to clean down to bare metal after every range session. But then I started shooting more and more, and heard from folks that rarely cleaned their bores, and decided to see how that worked for me. I've found excessive cleaning simply isn't needed to maintain accuracy. I also firmly believe that more you run a rod down the bore, the greater risk you have from wearing and damaging the bore.

    When I do want to get to bare metal, I alternate JB compound and Barnes CR-10. No more blue patches from the barnes, and I know I'm squeeky clean.
    I sure agree with you Paul that rifle bores are ruined by improper cleaning equipment and technique. However, if you're doing it right with the right stuff you aren't going to ruin your bore pushing a rod through it.

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    I had a 300 RUM that really copper fouled bad after 20 rounds. I noticed the barrel would heat up at 4 rounds when it was clean and 3 rounds, maybe 2 when not. The brush had much more resistance pushing through the bore after 20 rounds. Since I never knew how fouled the barrel was after shooting more than about 10 rounds, I decided to make sure it was clean. Then I knew how fouled it was. I cleaned at the range with wipe out and the accelerator. Took about 20 minutes and massive copper was gone. That gun is now gone and I have not had any gun go haywire like that with 20 rounds since.

    I have my Brother's 30-06 now and am playing with loads for it. It was quite copper fouled, and is not now. The accuracy improved after 3 cleanings with wipe out from 1.5-2 inch groups to easy 1inch. Not bad. It fouls up quick though and I notice the brush is hard to push through after 20 rounds. The funny thing is it shoots better when it is fouled like that, but not like it was fouled before. I also start seeing pressure signs that I did not with the same load 10 rounds before. Another thing. It is not "clean" just not copper fouled. I always get a dark black patch out of it when cleaning. That is either carbon or powder fouling. May be left over moly coating from the ballistic silver tip bullets he used.

    Long story short, I don't clean much at the range because it is quite the hassle to get the bore "clean" The bores that are easy to clean usually don't need to be cleaned that much. The ones I have been worried about take enough time at home and would be a waste of time at the range.

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