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Thread: Alaska Statute Sec. 11.46.350(b)

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    Default Alaska Statute Sec. 11.46.350(b)

    This was discussed in a previous post with one of the moderators. Just following up with what I had said.

    AK Statute. Sec. 11.46.350(b) states:

    For the purposes of this section, a person who without intent to commit a crime on the land, enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, is privleged to do so unless
    1. notice against trespass is personally communicated to that person by the owner of the land or some other authorized person; or
    2. notice against trespass is given by posting in a reasonably conspicuous manner under the circumstances.
    (c) A notice of trespass is given if the notice
    1. is printed legibly in English;
    2. is at least 144 square inches in size;
    3. contains the name and address of the person under whose authority the property is posted and the name and address of the person who is authorized to grant permission to enter the property;

    etc.

    interpret how you may, I've spoken to troopers about this...I know where I stand with the Native land.

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Some native corps "post" their land by running ads in local papers. I suspect such an ad would qualify as a legal posting.
    I have heard from native corp board members that the troopers are unwilling to spend time and money enforcing the states trespass laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Some native corps "post" their land by running ads in local papers. I suspect such an ad would qualify as a legal posting.
    I have heard from native corp board members that the troopers are unwilling to spend time and money enforcing the states trespass laws.
    The paper add may work if it's then posted at the edge of the property and meets the 144 square inch rule...in my opinion. Maybe that's why the troopers won't enforce it, because the natives won't follow the Statues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Some native corps "post" their land by running ads in local papers. I suspect such an ad would qualify as a legal posting.
    I have heard from native corp board members that the troopers are unwilling to spend time and money enforcing the states trespass laws.
    Bull,
    Can you imagine if every land owner in Alaska decided to post their private property in that manner. It doesn't even pass the common sense test. I could take out an add in the local paper, and everyone is supposed to be apprised of my actions. I don't think so. It has to be posted, and even then if you are not destroying the property, it is doubtful the troopers will enforce it, unless of course they are out to git'chya.

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    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default ?

    I'm not sure what was posted before. Is the question whether you can physically be on the land or can you pursue what ever legal recreational activities allowed by the state? I would think they are two different issues. Caution, I am no legal beagle.

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    Native Corporations may have their land posted to no trespass but they are also responsible for marking the spot that is open to access public land beyond their land. It's one of them Anti-American things though, they want their cake and eat it too without providing/marking the public access spots.

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    Premium Member denalihunter's Avatar
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    Default Land use

    On an elk hunt I did in Washington, the Quinault natives post their land every 100 feet no tresspassing. You can't miss them.

    The feds also post the Olympic National Park the same way.

    Sure it will come this way soon.

    I buy a permit from the Ninilchik Natives to hunt on their land every year, but 90 percent of the people out there are not buying permits. Kinda gets to me, but I'm not going to shoot a moose, and then have to sneak it out of there.

    Their land is only posted at the roads going in.

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    Default talked to fish and game

    I was into fish and game the other day asking about the area I drew a permit. I asked about the Bird Creek area and what about the private land there. He said that if the people didn't want me on the land then it would be posted. If it is not posted then do not worry about it. So I believe their side is that it has to be posted on the land.

    Eric

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    A very interesting subject matter. Has anyone ran any case law on the subject?

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this, Gsheperd. I guess I was mistaken - I figured the responsibility was always on the hunter to know whose land they were on. Interesting.

    -Brian

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    Its on! Thanks for the law man. The native corporation out here posts forest service land, go figure.
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    I've dealt with several native corps on kodiak regarding guiding on their lands as well as general hunting. afognak native posts their land, some hunters take the signs down, then its no longer posted...tricky. But afognak actually patrols their land during hunting season, checking permits, big fine if you don't have one, almost 2500 bucks. Quzinkie (spelling) has never given land use permission to a guide on kodiak...i asked last week and suprised them by asking for permission. Belive it or not, they have to discuss it at a board meeting...that tells me two things, no one cares they own the land, because they don't enforce it.

    page 8 of the hunting regulations under Regional Native Coropration Lands it says "Use of private lands without the landowners permission, other than those legally reserved for public access easements, is trespass." My front yards not posted and someone drove their snowmachine around in it several times, and the troopers told me it was trespassing and i could legaly make a citizens arrest and confiscate the machine.

    Funny issue, and one i know is disgarded by alot of people i'd assume just for the fact of "stickin' it to 'em" so to speak. I guess my take is if it was my land, i'd care of someone thought they had rights to it without talking to me.

    Tough sell, lotta folks trespass to hunt and it will never matter, others go thru the trouble of getting permits and it dont' matter, cause the guy next to them dont' have one, but because no one will enforce it this will never change. I guess the issue is if the hunter knows who owns the land and just disregards it because of personal preference or feelings towards the land owner...

    One land holder on kodiak gave me exclusive use permission to guide on his land if i would post it with signs and tell people to leave and show them plats of his land boundries and what not. He's fed up with DIY hunters camping on his land, leaving campfires and garabage laying around. smaller scale, its only 120 acres but i understand where he's coming from.

    Just make sure you know what corps land your using..some care ALOT some don't care at all...if they do catch you, the ones who care i mean...boy, you'll start to care as well, cause they've got the money to run you thru every legal paperwork swim meet they can think of, just for kicks and grins. They know average folks like us can't afford lawyers to find a tresspass issue...only telling you, cause i've seen it.

    And the land i was on, wasn't posted....
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    Default Understanding

    BRWNBR,
    I do understand where you are coming from, and I guess I would feel the same way if it were my land. If it were mine though, I would take the time to post it. But by Definition in the State Statue useing unposted land to hunt on is not trespassing. Your front yard is "improved" land and you have that right to protect it, and so does your friend here in Kodiak!

    Another note here on Kodiak, there is quite a bit of land that that is/was Navy/C.G. land but the Natives "claim" it's theirs. Heck I can claim it to be mine too. But in actuality the land is in dispute, and until whom ever deals with that neither party has "rights" to it. As far as the hunting regs, you are correct there too...which law out weighs the other? I have a friend that got out of the trooper Acad. last year, and is here in Kodiak...his interpritation is "if it's not posted, your good".
    And to be completely honest with you, (standing up on soap box) if it were personal private property not a Native corperation I would absolutly ask for permission. In my opinion, the Natives were a concured people before my lifetime. I could give 2 craps what their decendents think they deserve, we are all Americans now, every race creed and color. Why should they get special treatment? If I can get away with exploiting them legally through a loop hole I will, they did it to us when they got the land back! Our Country is getting way to soft! If we don't do something soon, people with out a "special race, religion, or sexual preferance" won't have a place here. Why don't we just give all the land to the illegal immigrents from Mexico, who will be getting SS cards and voting soon. If you looking for a Native sympothizer, your cries are falling on deaf ears my friend.

    Sorry I got on a tangent there, that was not a personal attack....I just get worked up about that. You seem like a good guy BRWNBR, and your intentions are Honorable! I guess I'm just disgruntled
    Hunt not with a gun big enough for what you are hunting, hunt with a gun big enough for what may be hunting you!

  14. #14

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    gents you guys got it good, here in WA it is the hunters responsibility to know the land boundaries. I have been in many a heated battles in the field for "trespassing" where a land owner has taken it upon himself to post timber company and in a few cases state land. I always have a plat map in my truck and if things get out of hand we call the troopers......it is a misdamenor to harass a sportsman. I have a favorite lake that is 30% private shoreline and the rest is timber co. the private owner leased his land access to a fishing club and they planted a bunch of HUGE fish in it, called the game dept, the enforcement guy says to keep 5 a day as it is public water and he told them not to plant it. well I fished it, the owner comes out in hi boat somkin' mad and starts rippin me a new one, I called the troopers who called the gamies who explained to the owner that I could press charges against HIM.....whole new attitude after that, he invited me to launch from his place if I would keep it to myself and not keep any fish......naw, thanks any how.

  15. #15

    Default Native land claims

    Gshepard, AMEN!!!! We as a nation had better wake up and soon, or we will be overrun with foreigners and whack-job groups. It's happening already, and the ACLU and liberal-types are behind most of it. They need to be the first to go.
    My grandmother was adopted from a Cherokee Indian reservation when she was 2. I am part Indian, but the way we are giving into the natives and special interest groups is absolutely wrong, and I will oppose it to the end. I agree with you, they were a conquered people long before our lifetimes. That's just the way it is.

    What does all this have to do with hunting? If this is allowed to continue the way it is, we will be squeezed from all open access public lands. Wake up America.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Gsheperd, if you've got the legal loop hole go for it. your not breaking any laws, just make sure it never comes up, cause the next thing you know the land will be posted.
    I guess for myself i would hope my peers dont' treat me based on my decendancy. just like what your saying about loosing the common ground to race/religion..ect your willing to disregard any ownership rights, based on race. fine line where we decide to stop treating people different based on where they come from. I hear that though, i'm 29, white male christian, i'm the only person you can legally discriminate against. I'm the last guy in line for the job.
    Morality and charachter, if its legal then i don't really see an issue but if you do it just cause their native corps..then your colors are starting to shine. what we do in life reflects who we are inside. i believe there is a point of gaining respect and giving respect that involves leaving our opinions aside and basing things off the moral guidelines of common sense so to speak.

    However, i do find this all terribbly ironic a people group whose thought process was based off who can own the land and the trees. Sometimes the corps i deal with are a pain, i need a letter of permission but it'll take them two months to get it to me...i have to pay them money but they'll actually tell you they won't enforce it or patrol it or check permits...soo why on earth should i pay them money for nothing..? lotta stupid questions, but to me, they own it, i'm not the guy who's gonna change the system by fighting this one.
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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default So now we're gonna bash Natives?

    Quote Originally Posted by GShepherd
    In my opinion, the Natives were a concured people before my lifetime. I could give 2 craps what their decendents think they deserve, we are all Americans now, every race creed and color. Why should they get special treatment? If I can get away with exploiting them legally through a loop hole I will, they did it to us when they got the land back! Our Country is getting way to soft! If we don't do something soon, people with out a "special race, religion, or sexual preferance" won't have a place here. Why don't we just give all the land to the illegal immigrents from Mexico, who will be getting SS cards and voting soon. If you looking for a Native sympothizer, your cries are falling on deaf ears my friend.

    Uh...when I read stuff like the above it tends to both sadden and anger me. It saddens me cuz it's so darn naive. It angers me cuz it's so dang racist in its own way.

    It appears that GShepherd is saying that the Alaska Natives exloited white people via a legal loophole when they "got the land back." Well gee, I think ANCSA was more about social engineering and our govt. taking advantage of Alaska Natives than it was about the Native peoples taking advantage of our country/govt. But that's just my opinion. Big money wanted that oil, and big money has a lot of influence, and before big money could get to the oil they needed to influence govt. to "make a deal" with the Native peoples of Alaska.

    And now some of you apparently have a problem with legal ownership of lands by Native corps? Pshaw. And futhermore you want to allude that we are "giving in" to the Natives?

    If thoughts like this weren't so sad, they'd be funny. But they aren't funny. They speak to a profound lack of historical understanding about how things got to be the way they are now. And to my mind they speak of closet racism as well, of a hint that "it's only Native land" and therefore we don't have to respect the fact that it's private property, or that in future when/if it is posted that will somehow be "wrong" or "unfair."

    Rather disgusted with some comments,

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    BRWNBR, you are wise beyond your 29 yrs.
    Vance in AK.

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    Default Moral issue

    Just because it is "legal" doesnt mean its morally right. You have to trust your own sense of morality. I have said before that I have done this very thing but we need to remember " do unto other......". Its like living next to a rich neighbor. You can think he's a jerk because he's got all this cool stuff you could never afford or you can be friendly with him and maybe hell invite you to use it.
    Why is it certain segments of ownership that are ignored and others are adhered to. Almost everyone knows were military lands are and stays well clear or gains permission well in advance. Native land is fair game though. They have so much and I dont so I just will do it no matter what.
    Its your own morals you have to deal with. Dont give me any legal loop holes about unimproved land we know whats right. If it was your 160 acre homestead and it wasnt posted completely then under your thinking we could hunt there because its "legal".
    Granted the Corps could make improvements to the process. Reasonable access fees at centralized places would be a huge step in the right direction.
    Until then we all have to use our own moral compass.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Uh...when I read stuff like the above it tends to both sadden and anger me. It saddens me cuz it's so darn naive. It angers me cuz it's so dang racist in its own way.

    It appears that GShepherd is saying that the Alaska Natives exloited white people via a legal loophole when they "got the land back." Well gee, I think ANCSA was more about social engineering and our govt. taking advantage of Alaska Natives than it was about the Native peoples taking advantage of our country/govt. But that's just my opinion. Big money wanted that oil, and big money has a lot of influence, and before big money could get to the oil they needed to influence govt. to "make a deal" with the Native peoples of Alaska.

    And now some of you apparently have a problem with legal ownership of lands by Native corps? Pshaw. And futhermore you want to allude that we are "giving in" to the Natives?

    If thoughts like this weren't so sad, they'd be funny. But they aren't funny. They speak to a profound lack of historical understanding about how things got to be the way they are now. And to my mind they speak of closet racism as well, of a hint that "it's only Native land" and therefore we don't have to respect the fact that it's private property, or that in future when/if it is posted that will somehow be "wrong" or "unfair."

    Rather disgusted with some comments,
    The "Plan" as stated in some of the original discussions, verbally, and somewhat disquised in the final written draft, was to introduce the Natives to a cash based economy. It appears to be working in that regard. The American Way, Money Talks, and nothing else matters. Regard for just doing the right thing is out the window. Everyone knows that you don't hunt close to someone's home, but locking up thousands of square miles of wilderness, Where is the sense in that. There is none. It is simply greed, plain and simple.
    The individuals that belong to the corporations, have a LONG way to go in the "Social Engineering" phase of the plan.

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