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Thread: Barrel Fouling Problem

  1. #1
    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    Default Barrel Fouling Problem

    I inherited a older Remington 721 in 300 H&H and am having some issues with it. I don't have a 300 mag, so I'd love to get this thing running. A range session earlier this week didn't go well. Handloads grouped at 3"+ and old factory Core-lokts actually tumbled and hit the target sideways!

    After taking it home I tore it down and had a good look at the barrel. I was surprised to find that bore was incredibly copper fouled. Looked like this thing hadn't been cleaned since it was bought in 1956.

    I spent the last three evenings working at it with copper solvent and JB paste and eventually got it down bare steel again. However, I never could get it to the "shiny" stage and it looked just slightly frosted. A followup range session today had it shooting much better. Initial groups were 1.5-2" but they shrank noticeably as I continued to shoot, and by the time I had worked through a box I was getting between 0.7-1.1". All good right?

    The problem is that after 30 rounds, I'm seeing significant copper fouling again. Looks like I've got a fairly rough bore. Anybody have any advice on what to do, other than just clean the heck out of it every time I shoot?

    Yk

  2. #2
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    yellowknife; a "frosted" bore cannot be fixed as generally a chemical change has damaged the metal. an example of this is from mixing bore solvents, or cleaning agents. this can be as complicated as mixing bottled solvents or as simple as following a wet patch with another product. this chemical reaction cannot be undone. my old savage .250 has a similar bore, and so must be scrubbed every single time it is used.
    the only real fix is to rebore or rebarrel. good luck!
    happy trails.
    jh

  3. #3
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    I've had similar difficulties before and have use Tubb's Final Finish with very good results. It may not fix your issue, but I'd give it a try. I used it on a .308 Win rifle that had the roughest bore I've personally seen. While it did not make it a BR rifle, it did increase accuracy and eased its cleaning considerably. It's worth a try IMO.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  4. #4
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    I've used the Tubbs product with great results. I think any production non match grade non hand lapped barrel will improve with the Tubbs treatment. Even if groups don't shrink cleaning a polished bore is much easier than a frosted or pitted bore.

  5. #5
    Member Yellowknife's Avatar
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    Looks like the price on the Tubbs product is reasonable. I may have to give it a try. Thanks guys.

    Yk

  6. #6
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    I used TUBBS and about shot the throat out of my 300 win. Use spariningly. I will give you a box of tubs bullets if you want them. PM me.

    There is no better copper remover than "wipe-out". I have tried them all, even electrolysis. It is sold at Sportsmans and Wild west, you won't use any other stinky solvent again.

  7. #7
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    I'm with Daved, I've used a lot of different cleaning products and have found wipe out and Mpro 7 to be the best, at least for me.

  8. #8
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    Default Flitz

    I would suggest cleaning the rifle one more time and then using flitz on the bore to smooth out edges of imperfections. This will limit fowling. I would take it to the range and break it in again. Shoot once, clean and then use windex to remove solvents. Shoot twice and clean, looking for copper and other fowling. Use windex again to remove all solvents. Shoot twice more and again check for fowling. If there is any keep at this unit it improves by cleaning and windexing. When the fowling reduces then shoot it more times between shots. It is slow, but it is the best way to get the bore broken in. Follow the directions on the cleaning solvents and copper removers as they can be caustic. If you are shooting factory loads then you may have to switch brands until you find one the gun likes. A 300 H & H should have a 1 in 10 twist and usually the best results are with longer and larger bullets in the .308 caliber menu.

  9. #9

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    YK,
    All of the above is good advice!

    If you are able to smooth out the rough spots, or break-in again, I'd suggest using the M-Pro 7, or Hoppes Elite bore cleaner. Not the solvents, but the non-toxic type that is odorless, and water based like Windex. Use this first to remove carbon fouling, and then switch over to Bore Foam for the copper removal. Any of the ones available here will work. I use Outers bore foam, but Hoppes Elite, Wipe Out or any of the other foam type sprays will work.

    The key is to clean first with M-Pro 7, then use the bore foam by filling up the barrel from the breech, until it comes out of the muzzle.
    Then leave it in your shooters vice or similar apparatus overnight on an incline of 25-30 degrees so that the foam will scrub the copper out and drain out of the muzzle. It can be a little messy, but it works. After 8-10 hours there will be a large blue puddle on the rag/towel that is under the muzzle of the barrel.

    I've used this method for quite a few years now, ( ever since the first bore foam product hit the market,) and it works better than anything else I've tried. That includes the ammonia based cleaners, and the Outer Foul Out, electrolysis methods. Unfortunately I didn't have the patience to leave it overnight, and let gravity and the bore foam do the work for me, when I first started using it.
    Once I allowed the necessary time, it has worked magic on getting rid of copper fouling.

    I hope you find this helpful!!

    zim698

  10. #10

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    You need a new barrel (I've been there). If you want to be convinced, have it borescoped and save yourself the time and resources trying to "bring it back to life", which would well be better spent on a new quality barrel. Your throat is likely burned and eroded and bore pitted and fire cracked.

    I've never had a 721, but I've read they are very good actions and well worth investing in. JMO

    -Mark

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