Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Problems with 22-250 reloads

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    11

    Default Problems with 22-250 reloads

    I have a Winchester M70 featherweight in 22-250 that is microbedded. I've been reloading and getting terrible results (5 inch groups at 70 yards) using some popular recipes. So far I've used various combinations of H380 and Varget powders,CCI LR primers or CCI magnum primers, Winchester brass, and Hornady 55 gr FMJ bullets. I have followed all specifications such as trimming to lenghth, seating bullet depth, and I have measured the powder for each reload to ensure consistency.

    I then bought factory loads that were Remington Core-lokt 55gr. soft points and was able to get 0.5 inch groups at 70 yards. The differences between my reloads and factory loads are primers, powder, brass brand, and bullet type (although both are 55 grain).

    Does anybody have any advise as to what I may be doing wrong or why I am having so much trouble with some standard reloads?

  2. #2

    Default

    Connibear - It may not be something you are doing wrong but rather your gun found a recipe that worked for it. Each rifle is different and has its own preferences of what it will shoot accurately. My 22-250 loves 52 HPBT, but will not group well at all with a 53 grain. That's one of the frustrating yet rewarding things about reloading - finding the load that produces what ever goal you are working towards. You may find 9 loads that work just ok or not at all, but the 10th causes the clouds to part and heavenly music begins!

  3. #3
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conibear View Post
    I have a Winchester M70 featherweight in 22-250 that is microbedded. I've been reloading and getting terrible results (5 inch groups at 70 yards) using some popular recipes. So far I've used various combinations of H380 and Varget powders,CCI LR primers or CCI magnum primers, Winchester brass, and Hornady 55 gr FMJ bullets. I have followed all specifications such as trimming to lenghth, seating bullet depth, and I have measured the powder for each reload to ensure consistency.

    I then bought factory loads that were Remington Core-lokt 55gr. soft points and was able to get 0.5 inch groups at 70 yards. The differences between my reloads and factory loads are primers, powder, brass brand, and bullet type (although both are 55 grain).

    Does anybody have any advise as to what I may be doing wrong or why I am having so much trouble with some standard reloads?
    5 inch groups at 70 yards indicates that you may have a mechanical problem, i.e. loose action screw/s, loose bases, etc. However since the factory loaded Core-Lokts are performing much better there could be another condition. First let me ask how many groups produced 5 inch results at 70 yards and how many groups were .5 inches at 70 yards? One group typically is not a good indicator of accuracy.

    Since the factory loaded Core-Lokts perform much better I would suspect something is amiss with your COAL in your handloads. Core-Lokts often prove quite accurate due to their more rounded ogive. This means that ammunition loaded with Core-Lokts is longer at the ogive, given similar COAL, than other more streamlined bullets and have less distance to travel before engaging the lands of the rifling. Closer to the lands is almost always a good thing when seeking best accuracy. I'd carefully increase your handloads COAL, checking to make certain that you are not seating the bullets into the lands. I suspect you'll find some improvement; perhaps a dramatic improvement.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  4. #4
    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    I agree with 377PFA, I shot 13 different loads one day in my 22-250 and only three were awsome most the rest were about 1" at 100yds and a few were spread out pretty good. Out of those 13 different loads I used two different powders and two different bullets. My rifle loves varget powder wiht 55gr combined technology ballistic silver tips. I shot the Hornady 52gr A-max and it didn't like them much.

    My advise would be to get at least ten different loads of whatever combination you want and see what works best. You can fine tune the best out of ten and get some amazing loads.

  5. #5

    Default

    I am reading and watching this thread closely....

  6. #6
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 377PFA View Post
    Connibear - It may not be something you are doing wrong but rather your gun found a recipe that worked for it. Each rifle is different and has its own preferences of what it will shoot accurately... You may find 9 loads that work just ok or not at all, but the 10th causes the clouds to part and heavenly music begins!
    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    I agree with 377PFA, I shot 13 different loads one day in my 22-250 and only three were awsome...
    FWIW, A +7 MOA rifle is not something you simply tune with various powder charges and different bullets. I've never encountered a mechanically sound (tight fasteners, reasonable bedding, intact crown, etc.) bolt action rifle that will not produce better than twice that much accuracy with any load I put in it, and I've shot more than a handful of rifles. If the COAL/throat is not significantly out of spec (I mean way out) then something is loose or seriously wrong (damaged rifling, haywire scope, etc.). If the rifle is mechanically sound, then one of the groups [either the .5 inch or the 5 inch] at 70 yards was an anomaly (shooter error).
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  7. #7
    hap
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    5 inch groups at 70 yards indicates that you may have a mechanical problem, i.e. loose action screw/s, loose bases, etc. However since the factory loaded Core-Lokts are performing much better there could be another condition. First let me ask how many groups produced 5 inch results at 70 yards and how many groups were .5 inches at 70 yards? One group typically is not a good indicator of accuracy.

    Since the factory loaded Core-Lokts perform much better I would suspect something is amiss with your COAL in your handloads. Core-Lokts often prove quite accurate due to their more rounded ogive. This means that ammunition loaded with Core-Lokts is longer at the ogive, given similar COAL, than other more streamlined bullets and have less distance to travel before engaging the lands of the rifling. Closer to the lands is almost always a good thing when seeking best accuracy. I'd carefully increase your handloads COAL, checking to make certain that you are not seating the bullets into the lands. I suspect you'll find some improvement; perhaps a dramatic improvement.
    I agree with leaping to lands, though I have yet to see any Core-Lokt ever really shine. On the Juenke they are simply the worst bullets I have found.
    art

  8. #8
    New member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Thanks for the advise. I'll look to see about seating the bullets at different depths or trying other bullets. I hope to be able to use FMJ bullets as I don't want to be tearing up foxes too much.

    I don't believe that it is shooter error. I've shot all three loads during the same day and often right after each other. I also made sure all bolts were tight. I am pretty sure the rifle is capable of shooting good groups (as demonstrated by the Core-lokts), but am guessing that the gun is picky about what type of reloads I am using.

    Also, I thought about trying to copy the Remington Core-lokt loads, but cannot find out what velocity the bullets are moving at or what type of powder is used. Any suggestions?

  9. #9

    Default

    The only way to calculate velocity accurately with the Remington Core Lokts is with a chronograph. Rabbit Creek Rifle Range used to rent them yrs ago but not sure if they still do if you don't have one already. I'm not sure that you can find out exactly what primer or powder they are using. Worth a quick call but not sure if they'll give you enough information. Other than that it is trial and error with trying different load combinations. On the bright side, at least it isn't in a heavy recoiling rifle and will be more enjoyable during the testing of loads. Keep us posted with what you come up with.

  10. #10
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    I agree with leaping to lands, though I have yet to see any Core-Lokt ever really shine. On the Juenke they are simply the worst bullets I have found.
    art
    I am certainly not arguing for match grade accuracy from Core-Lokt bullets, but I've used them to build sub-MOA loads in numerous rifles.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  11. #11
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conibear View Post
    I don't believe that it is shooter error. I've shot all three loads during the same day and often right after each other. I also made sure all bolts were tight. I am pretty sure the rifle is capable of shooting good groups (as demonstrated by the Core-lokts), but am guessing that the gun is picky about what type of reloads I am using.
    There are numerous causes for poor accuracy, ammo is certainly among them, but if your handloads were well prepared with the components you listed then the ammo was not the issue. +7 MOA to sub MOA is a HUGE swing. Can one load be better than another? Of course it can. But this is not a matter of degree, but of kind. I own a bunch of rifles and I am betting you can take any one of them and fire 15 different loads into one group and it will produce accuracy at least twice that good. I do not know everything about rifles, but I know enough that I would not chase better ammo for a +7 MOA shooter.

    FWIW, as far as powder selection you simply can't do any better in the 22-250 than H380, Varget & RL 15. The other components (brass, bullets, primers) are known entities as well. Perhaps the handloads are to blame, but that would indicate assembly issues not component problems. Otherwise this leaves a mechanical issue or operator error as the possible causes. I am not berating you; just trying to help.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  12. #12
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,216

    Default

    I can hardly wait to find out how this will all shake out. I just ended up with a 22-250 in a swap,,, I am hoping to shoot it tomorrow, if I can take care of all the other emergencies first...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Hello Conibear...

    You're getting some great information and suggestions from others. I'll reinforce what 1Cor has already noted...the COAL of your reloads is likely the problem. Are you measuring the distance to the lands for your bullet/chamber? If not, you should do that first before doing trial and error to get the right COAL. Do a search on the handloading forum for measuring distance to the lands, and you'll get ideas of how to do that (and if you already know how, then just do it). I'm sure that tweaking your COAL will help.

    One other factor (albeit remote) that I have not yet heard from others...while your reloads and the factory ammunition are both 55grain bullets, they are different bullets (Hornady/Remington). Different bullets of the same weight are often different in shape and even length although they are of the same weight. As an extreme example, the difference is really noticeable when comparing Barnes TSX's (all copper) to conventional bullets of the same weight...the TSX's are sometimes much longer. Longer bullets require a faster twist to stabilize in flight. I mention this because a 55grn bullet out of a 22-250 is at the top end of the bullet range for conventional twist with that caliber. I further suspect that the Corelockts are shorter than the Hornady's. Take a look at the targets of your first reload attempts...is there any evidence of bullet yaw (key-hole shape)?

    Last point...Varget has been an excellent powder for me with the 22-250, using LR primers.

    Good luck, sir. Let us know what you find.

  14. #14
    Pilot1995
    Guest

    Default

    Of the suggestions so far I'm thinking you have found a bullet that your particular rifle does not like. My experience is with a Ruger 22-250. I have tried to tune it in with 4 or 5 different types of bullets and many different powders. I was able to get it tuned in with all bullets but some 65 gr nosler partitions I tried. Nothing I tried seemed to make the groups better and I did see key holes (tumbling bullets) as mentioned above. It was a excellent learning experience that proved what was suggested to me by people who already new more than I - 65 gr bullets & 22-250 don't go together.

    My experience is catridge overall length does improve accuracy. But my opinion is as long as you are following the book SAAMI cartridge lengths and not doing something totally outrageous you would not experience such wild groups as 5" at 70 yards. FYI since nobody has described on how to tune COAL. Do more research but here's my method of setting up COAL: 1. Get a fired brass. 2. Place a bullet in the brass, check that there is some friction to the fit but it needs to be loose enough that the bullet can be pushed in. Tighten it up by rolling the neck on the bench if needed. 3. With the bullet standing proud camber it. The bullet will hit the lands and push into the case. 4. Remove it from the chamber and record the cartridge length. 5. Do 3 & 4 enough to gain confidence that what you are recording is repeatable and believable. 6. Set the COAL for seating your loaded cartridges 0.010 - 0.015" (please double check me on this as these #'s are from memory, not my reference book) less than your step 5 result. Check it against the SAAMI spec. Check that these lengths will fit your magazine. This is a conservative COAL. Some will proably say they set it tighter than 0.010", but another one of my opinions is unless your bench shooting you are splitting the hairs of accuracy that are not needed for hunting if you overwork the COAL.

    My suggestion is try to use a different brand of FMJ bullet - Sierra makes one. Have you ever tried hand loading other bullets? I've had good experience with Hornady 35 gr v-max.

    One other comment - 22-250's tear up fox and smaller animals, even with FMJ bullets - too much velocity no matter what bullet you are shooting. My experience with this fact has even gotten me to try some reduced loads in my gun. I've tuned in some 1800 - 2000 fps loads to experiment with. Unfortunetly I haven't shot anything with them so no first hand experience.

    Hopefully my thoughts help you and I'm interested in reading this as it develops - Thanks for asking the question.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,808

    Default

    They're both 55 grain bullets, but is one a BT?

    What is the twist in your rifle barrel?

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  16. #16
    Pilot1995
    Guest

    Default

    My memory served me wrong. Nosler Partition 60 gr - not 65 gr. That's why I have every load I've ever tried for all my rifles written down in a reference book and document their performance. Unfortunetly I'm not at home so I am forced to use my bad memory.

    If I remember correctly I was getting 3" + groups of 3 at 100 yards and definetly experieced key holing with the Noslers. I was able to get 1" - with all other bullets. I belevie this was with 3 or 4 different powders, and several different charges per type of powder as recomended by the Nosler reloading manual. Bottom line - I could not find a bullet, powder & charge combo with the Nosler Partitions that I was happy with.

  17. #17
    hap
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I am certainly not arguing for match grade accuracy from Core-Lokt bullets, but I've used them to build sub-MOA loads in numerous rifles.

    The Core-Lokt bullets I have run across the Juenke have made me wonder about the machine... They do not shoot nearly as badly as I would expect from bullets that measure so poorly. I ran 500 30 caliber CLs (Cabela's bulk pack) a while back and had exactly 3 bullets that went into the <5 units box... By comparison some SMKs have run 40-50%... and virtually all run <10. The Core-Lokts were ~20% <10...

    Getting them to MOA reliably would be a bit of a challenge, but I do not doubt your experience.
    art

  18. #18
    New member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    11

    Default Still having problems with my 22-250

    It has been a while since I have been able to try something different with my reloads. I am now back at it again.

    I am still having trouble with accuracy, although I've seen some improvement by switching bullets. What I've tried next was to shoot 52 gr. HP Sirra Match Kings. I've also made sure that my bullet seating is just off the lands. I've also used the published maximum bullet length with no difference. Instead of 5 inch groups, I now get about 3.5 inch groups. Not much improvement. I've had the barrel scoped by a gunsmith and was told that there wasn't anything in particular that was seen, although it did look a little rough which is normal for a factory barrel. The gunsmith didn't really have anything to offer other than to get a new barrel.

    I'm shooting a winchester featherlight with a 22 inch barrel and 1 and 14 twist. This appears to be a standard for a 22-250 and is what is used in many reloading manuals.

    Has anybody ever used bore polishing bullets or some type of compound with any improvement in accuracy?
    The other thing that I am considering is to freefloat the barrel. As of now, the barrel is microbedded all the way to the end of the stock. Any suggestions as to what I should try next?

    Again, all reloading was done to specs and powder was measured for each shell.

  19. #19
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,216

    Default

    JB bore compound worked on a couple of my rifles.
    I needed to use it on the 22-250 i got in the above trade.

    I discovered that my rifle was very picky about the COAL. It is also picky about the bullet and the velocity. It does not sem to like super hot loads for accuracy. Also properly trimmed and chamfered brass and no crimp... I have some Nosler brass that is very nice...
    The Winchester stuff is OK.... The Remington brass stuff I have is horrible and won't group any better than 2.0 inches

    52gr SpeerHPBT,
    38.0gr H-380
    WW brass,
    Fed210, primer
    2.400 col,
    nocrimp
    = 3,347fps & 0.40in grp
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    515

    Default

    I had an almost similar problem with a swift. I had two and they both shot the same load but I used one more than another. I reloaded a batch following the load info I had and they would not shoot. I finally nailed the problem. In my load I was using one primer and simply did not list the brand that small change made a huge change in how they shot. Soo maybe any minor change could solve everything.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •