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Thread: For all the Remington Model 700 haters

  1. #1
    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Default For all the Remington Model 700 haters

    My FFL got me a 375 H&H mag in Remington model 700 XCRII a couple months ago. I finally got out and shot it today. I was using handloaded 300 grain swift a-frames with 75 grains of H-4350 and federal 215 primers.

    The two pics show the first target I shot, .375" group (ironic eh?) at 100 yards with a single bullet that was a flyer (it was my first shot and I had run a solvent patch through the barrel).

    After those first 4 shots, I ran a patch with copper remover, then a patch with solvent, then fired 5 more shots. The first one flew away from the other 4 and the other 4 made a .55" group.

    This rifle is straight out of the box with a Leupold VX-3 3.5-10x40 CDS scope with quick release mounts.

    Just thought I would show everyone how nice a brand new model 700 is shooting these days.

    BTW, no lead sled, just a standard rest.

    ***The darker image target were the first shots and the image is rotated 90 degrees, it was hitting low to start***
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Not Bad MP - outa shoot real good once you get a load worked up fer it!
    Truthfully, its kinda bitter sweet to start out like that - good grief how can one improve!
    Thanks for the pic's = well done....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Member markopolo50's Avatar
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    That is real good shooting MP. I just got a scope on my XCRII in 300 mag but haven't shot it. Nice to see those tight groups. Did you run more cleaner after more shooting? I am planning to shoot one, clean, shoot another,clean for the first 10 shots. Probably not much for grouping till then. Or do you think this is too much cleaning? Thanks, Mark

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    I've always gone with the 3-5 shots, wire brush, copper solvent, hoppes solvent, dry patch, 3-5 more shots etc.

    Always worked real good for me, although you could ask 5 different people how they break a barrel in and get 6 different answers.

    I typically end up pulling copper solvent 5 times that first shooting session. I did it 4 times today on the new 375. Good luck and good shooting.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    I can see why you are encouraged, BUT,,,

    Shoot more groups before jumping to any conclusions.

    What you perceive to be a Flyer, should be included in the group, because it may not be a flyer.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    I guess that's possible Smitty, however all my rifles have always flung the first shot after cleaning my entire life. I plan on shooting a 10 shot group next time without cleaning in between.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPenetration View Post
    I guess that's possible Smitty, however all my rifles have always flung the first shot after cleaning my entire life. I plan on shooting a 10 shot group next time without cleaning in between.
    I'm not sayin you're wrong, because I dunno. My caution was just because I've been fooled myself.

    Or, you could do 2, 5 shot groups, so the barrel cools.

    You could fire a fouling shot, before trying for group.

    Smitty of the North
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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Yeah smitty, I usually fire a fouling shot into the dirt after my last cleaning before moose camp each year. And I take about 3 minutes between shots so barrel heat never seems to be an issue. The reason I was stoked about those groups is because the one shot away from the group was the fouling shot each time.

    I'll keep you posted next time I take her out. I will be firing through a chrony and trying 6 other powder charges as well, so results may vary.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

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    OK, Thanks.
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
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    I have had a lot of 700s over the years and they still hold the dominant place in my safe & hunting heart. I have hunted with 700s for decades and used a couple as an LE sniper, and have no complaints...

    The only one I owned that wouldn't print was a LH CDL 7MM Mag that turned out to have had the barrel screwed on cockeyed (cross-threaded) at the factory. I couldn't get it to group 3" at 100 off the bench. Took it back to the dealership I bought it from and they earned my business forever when they swapped that rifle for another NIB just like it. No issues at all with the second rifle. They sent the first rifle back to Remington and found the barrel installation issue...

    Wouldn't mind getting my mitts on a 700 in 375, but I'm not inclined to part with the cask for a LH 375 out of the Custom Shop...

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    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    nice shooting! a group like that shows the rifles' inherent accuracy, but you are clearly doing the right thing with cheekweld, hold and trigger pull.

    after a complete cleaning but before shooting again, i will dry patch the bore. generally it has eliminated "flyers" for me.
    happy trails.
    jh

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    after a complete cleaning but before shooting again, i will dry patch the bore. generally it has eliminated "flyers" for me.
    Same here. No fliers at all in any caliber.

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    Yeah I was dry patching it twice and still got some crap on the second patching. I should probably run 3 or 4 patches through dry to get her totally dried out. I normally only clean the gun after a long shooting session unless I'm breaking in a barrel like yesterday. Typically it doesn't affect me except the first shot each time at the range.
    An unarmed man is subject, an armed man is a citizen.

  14. #14
    hap
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    The bench rest guys that skip break-in and just "run 'em like they brung 'em" do not show any ill effects from it... They seem to shoot just as well...

    Of course those are typically custom tubes with more than a touch of lapping. I quit worrying about break-in a long time ago...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    The bench rest guys that skip break-in and just "run 'em like they brung 'em" do not show any ill effects from it... They seem to shoot just as well...

    Of course those are typically custom tubes with more than a touch of lapping. I quit worrying about break-in a long time ago...
    Yeah, I don't do the break in process either. I shoot it till it's time to go home, clean it, and accuracy never was a problem. I've never owned a rifle that wouldn't shoot under an inch at 100 yards. They all seem to have maintained their groups for as long as I cared to shoot groups at the range. The only thing I did find from a new rifle though was little flakes of steel on the cleaning patches after the first cleaning. I reckon it must have been small shards of steel that naturally fall off the sharp edges of various spots in the action during break-in, I was concerned about that, but the chamber and rifling looked fine.

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    I don't think anyone ever complained about the accuracy of the Mdl 700s - they are generally great shooter!

    It is just that the action is so easy to jam up or close on an empty chamber that make them unacceptable to me and many other "Remingron haters" as a dangerous game rifle. You can't screw up with my FN Mauser or Win. 70 Classic no matter how you operate it but I can pick up up your loaded 700 and have it inoperable in a few seconds or have it ready to fire it with an empty chamber. Stuff happens - often at the wrong moment. I want my dangerous game rifle as dependable and reliable as possible - period.

    But we have been down this road before!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I don't think anyone ever complained about the accuracy of the Mdl 700s - they are generally great shooter!

    It is just that the action is so easy to jam up or close on an empty chamber that make them unacceptable to me and many other "Remingron haters" as a dangerous game rifle. You can't screw up with my FN Mauser or Win. 70 Classic no matter how you operate it but I can pick up up your loaded 700 and have it inoperable in a few seconds or have it ready to fire it with an empty chamber. Stuff happens - often at the wrong moment. I want my dangerous game rifle as dependable and reliable as possible - period.

    But we have been down this road before!
    I'm not sure what you mean.

    Are you saying you can't short-stroke or jam a Mauser, or Mdl 70? (CRF, I assume.)

    Aren't CRF actions more touchy as to feeding? More easily broken?

    And how are you rendering these 700s inoperable, in a few seconds?

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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    Certainly not more easily broken - extractors on controlled feeds are pretty dang strong - not a cheap whimpy piece of stamped out sheet metal. I've beat bolts open on numerous controlled feed rifles without ever busting an extractor although I've pulled big chunks of the rim off cases.

    If you want to jam a 700 up just feed round into the chamber without closing the bolt and then pull the bolt back and feed another round into the first. Major jam in a couple of seconds. Of course you can short stoke it also and try to fire an empy chamber. These things can and do happen in emergencies - people - all of us not matter how highly trained - screw up when the chips are down and the pucker factor is high.

    Controlled feed feed rifles don't have these problems - they were designed that way so soldiers could stake there lives on them in combat in the worse of conditions. Not aware of any push feed bolt action rifles used to any extent in combat but tens of millions of controlled feed rifles were used around the world. Must be a reason huh?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Member MaximumPenetration's Avatar
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    I've been in probably a dozen situations where I am stroking a round in as fast as possible on my model 700's and I've never had a problem. I think it depends on how practiced you are with the individual weapon. I would take my 375 H&H model 700 against dangerous game in a heartbeat. My brush gun is a Marlin 1895 SBL 45-70 with hot loads simply for one in the chamber and 6 in the tube, plus reloading with the rifle on my shoulder and being able to reload the tube with one in the chamber. But I prefer my scoped 375 out in the open areas. This new XCR II came with iron sights which I have left on the gun and have QR leupold mounts, so if I need to go into the brush after a griz I can pop my scope off and have quicker target acquisition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Certainly not more easily broken - extractors on controlled feeds are pretty dang strong - not a cheap whimpy piece of stamped out sheet metal. I've beat bolts open on numerous controlled feed rifles without ever busting an extractor although I've pulled big chunks of the rim off cases.

    If you want to jam a 700 up just feed round into the chamber without closing the bolt and then pull the bolt back and feed another round into the first. Major jam in a couple of seconds. Of course you can short stoke it also and try to fire an empy chamber. These things can and do happen in emergencies - people - all of us not matter how highly trained - screw up when the chips are down and the pucker factor is high.

    Controlled feed feed rifles don't have these problems - they were designed that way so soldiers could stake there lives on them in combat in the worse of conditions. Not aware of any push feed bolt action rifles used to any extent in combat but tens of millions of controlled feed rifles were used around the world. Must be a reason huh?
    "Both the U.S. Army's M24 Sniper Weapon System and U.S. Marine Corps' M40 sniper rifles are built from the Remington Model 700 rifle, in different degrees of modification, the main difference being the custom fitted heavy contour barrel. The M24 uses the long action bolt-face, whereas the M40 uses the short action. The reason for this difference is that the M24 was originally intended to chamber the longer .30-06 round."

    The above info was straight out of wikipedia. I guess maybe the military has been pretty happy with the 700's. I know a couple Swat guys from Minnesota that think their model 700's can compete with any military/police rifles in existence.

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