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Thread: Puzzling

  1. #1

    Question Puzzling

    Ok, in reading a post in another forum, I am Puzzled about the situation as stated. Lots of questions in my mind.
    Can a Guide charge a Trophy Fee, for animals taken on an Unguided Hunt simply because the hunter was hunting out of a Guides Camp?

    Can a Guide Contract with a Client to provide only limited services? ie Transportation, Meals, Lodging and NOT Accompany the Client in the field?

    Or, Not Contract and still provide/demand services and payment?

    Can Transporters charge a Trophy Fee for animals taken and transported by their clients?

    Is this taking Unguided Hunts to a level I have never heard of before now?
    Last edited by Brian M; 02-03-2011 at 13:55.
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  2. #2
    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    I read the same thing and had similar questions as you. Seemed pretty odd to me and the prices were a bit steep!

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    I have seen where air transporters will charge a "trophy" fee when it may (or may not) result in extra flights. Can't imagine a bear hide causing an extra flight, but suppose it could happen.
    Not sure why the extra fee if a hunter takes a bear & brings it in strapped to his pack????

    Maybe its all justified by that good old American tradition of charging whatever the market will bear. I guess someone that's willing to dump $4500 to camp in a lodge may find it bearable?

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    I read that and immediately had two reactions. The first was that's a really good price for everything in the package. The seconds is what the hack, why the trophy fee! The guide will nto be with you, the you have to do your own skinning , you are getting it back to camp, the guide does NOT own the game. Maybe to keep people from taking bears so they will be around for his clients? Its his camp and its his right to stipulate conditions. I will NEVER do a hunt where a trophy fee is charged, I had too much of that when I was stationed overseas. If its a private herd, I understand.

  5. #5

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    I read the same thing and had similar questions as you. Seemed pretty odd to me and the prices were a bit steep!
    Sure opened my eyes to a whole new realm of Possibilites:
    A Guide could reasonably take a couple of extra Non-Guided Hunters to his camp, arrange for their transportation thru a third party Air Charter, allow them to hunt and just charge them for the animals they killed under the guise of a Trophy Fee. Sure would help to cover expenses and with little involvement effort having to be put out.

    While I know of Guide's conducting Guided Hunts and Drop-Off Hunts simutaneously, this is the very first time that I have heard of a Guide charging a Trophy Fee for an "unguided" hunt.

    Not saying it is Wrong or Bad...but certainly something that I had not yet heard of or considered that it is actually happening. Some pretty serious side money could be had, if say the Guide and Client were going after one species and the Non-Guided Hunters were hunting another...or in opposite directions for the same species.


    I am also wondering what "light assistance" is, and is a "tip" not considered to be a form of payment for services rendered in the field? re from a Guide Camp by an "guy" (presumably not the Guide) to an Un-guided Hunter???
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  6. #6
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    I assumed the guide had to be right alongside the hunter when after big bears in Alaska for safety reasons?
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I assumed the guide had to be right alongside the hunter when after big bears in Alaska for safety reasons?
    Not in this instance....NO Non-Residents Allowed...only Resident Hunters can be afforded this opportunity. Therefore, they could hunt on their own.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  8. #8
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    I think it is unfortunate that there are enough people in this great state that there is a market for this type of service. Yes there are specific situations that may warrant this, but for the most part it's disappointing to see folks paying for this rather than getting the fulfillment from going out and doing it on their own. And a trophy fee?? That's interesting. Oh well, times sure are a changing.

  9. #9
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    My best guess is that the guide is limited on the number of bears that can be taken by people from his lodge. Any bears taken by residents count against that limit and he is unable to take a non-res out for that same bear. $2000 trophy fee in that case is a screamin' deal since he can probably charge $15-20 grand to a non-res.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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    My understanding is that a non-resident still can hunt bears in this area and so its still a marketable hunt for the guide. Dead bear means more money.

  11. #11
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBoater View Post
    My best guess is that the guide is limited on the number of bears that can be taken by people from his lodge. Any bears taken by residents count against that limit and he is unable to take a non-res out for that same bear. $2000 trophy fee in that case is a screamin' deal since he can probably charge $15-20 grand to a non-res.
    again ... your a resident hunter, all you need is a tag, and a open season. so if the season is open, and you have a tag.. WHY would a resident hunter have to pay a trophy fee?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    .. WHY would a resident hunter have to pay a trophy fee?
    It's part of your contract with the lodge/guide service. It's basically his way of discouraging resident moose hunters from shooting bears as an "add-on" that he could be guiding non-res hunters to for bigger dollars. He can't prohibit resident hunters from filling a legally held tag (that's interfering with a legal hunt) but he can charge you a fee for sticking it in his plane, in his lodge, generally dealing with it, etc.

    Not sure if his lodge has a quota type allotment on bears; but a bunch of resident moose hunters going back and nailing grizllies off gut piles the next day would sure trim down the numbers in the area a bit and affect the overall densities.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    It's part of your contract with the lodge/guide service. It's basically his way of discouraging resident moose hunters from shooting bears as an "add-on" that he could be guiding non-res hunters to for bigger dollars.
    Are you sure about this? Have you seen the Terms of the Contract? Has anyone ever seen a Guide/Client Contract that stated Terms, re to a Trophy Fee being assessed for an unaccompanied, unguided hunt? Has anyone ever known of someone that actually paid a Trophy Fee to a Guide, that allowed you to operate out of their camp?

    Not to be-labor the point, but this seemingly address' a lot of opportunity for Guides and possibly Transporters to make a good amount of money, without much or any level of effort on their part. Should be no reason for a Small Time Guide to complain anymore about not being able to make ends meet or not make a handsome living, if all he has to do is provide the camps and charge Trophy Fees. Sorta tends to make their arguements hollow.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    When I lived in Valdez 92'-95', I wanted to get out to Green or Montague islands for some deer hunting so I made an inquiry at Ketchums' Air Service chalet on the harbor. I notice after I entered that there was binder , the binder contained photos, destinations and prices for drop offs or flight seeing, these were either tours or transportation fees. I noticed that the fee for being dropped off on either one of the 2 islands I was interested in was $150.00 round trip. My reaction was , Wow ! I had no idea it was that affordable, to the young lady behind the counter. Then I mentioned I wanted to go hunt deer.

    Well , she says, " if you go there to hunt deer then it will cost $800.00."

    But, if I want to go there and take photos or camp it is $150.00 ?

    Yes, she says.

    Of course, incredulously, I said" What! How can you possibly justify that?"

    She looked me straight in the face and said" Well, the pilot has to load the deer in the plane."

    At that point I decided it was in my best interest to leave.

    Not exactly the same as what you posted, Akres, but I took it as a trophy fee, or at the very least, an activity fee . I think there is far more of it going on than many realize, it may just be stated more overtly.

  15. #15
    jwolf
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    Re: the lodge scenario: I think the question would be is if the “guide” in the field was in-fact guiding and did he “contract” the hunt? Does he have the appropriate licensing to conduct the hunts, within the GMU, and is there a contractual agreement? Depends on what the “guide” is doing besides tucking the client in at night. I think the ad speaks for itself.
    I have never heard of a transporter obtaining “trophy fees” because transporters can’t or are NOT suppose to act within the capacity of a Guide. Air transport could tip the grey area because there’s a good chance they can pull a drop-off somewhere ‘good.’ Depending on the service.. The original topic of taking pictures vs. transport is sort of silly in my mind. There are so many factors that could come into play it’s, well, as I stated “silly.” A transporter’s duty involves game retrieval and as far as air-born transport the bar becomes much higher. They have to retrieve game..PERIOD.. The risk is higher; the licensing and insurance factors also come into play NOT to mention a pilot’s capability..They have a couple of options re contractual agreements but their purpose, and to their detriment, is to retrieve game from the field come hell or high water.. Can take photos a mile off any strip eh? Little different crash-landing and taking off heavy from the nearest river bed.. uhh.. Activity bonus? LOL!! I hope so..
    As defined by: AS 08.54.650 I.E. who “owns” the lodge? And who’s the guide?
    (b) A transporter may provide transportation services and accommodations to big game hunters in the field at a permanent lodge, house, or cabin owned by the transporter or on a boat with permanent living quarters located on salt water. A transporter may not provide big game hunting services without holding the appropriate license.”




  16. #16
    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    My take on this ...... "Barnum and Bailey said there's a sucker born every minute"

  17. #17
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i worked for a guide that viewed each animal as a walkin' price tag and that was it. i don't know the guide who's trying to sell this hunt, but to charge a resident a 2000 trophy fee is basicly the guides perogative...if you don't want to pay for it...don't do it. same as a non resident who says " your prices are too high!", if its to much, don't spend it. plenty of areas in ak for moose and bear combo for less than 6500 bucks... to try and comprehende the morality and ethics behind his decision making is a flat point. we won't ever get it and just be guessing anyway so no real point.
    personally, i don't like trophy fees at all by definition. an extra fee for flying a kill out is one thing, an extra fee for an animal thats not owned and no extra work is involved other than flying....don't get it.
    would be nice if Mike S would jump in on this and give us more of a background to better understand this offer.
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    The guy is in business to make money and can charge anything he wants for any legal service he wants. If he wants to charge an additional 2000 for hauling out a bear hide thats fine with me as I will never be using his services. Anyone that has 6500 +tanning costs to hang a chunk of dead bear on their wall has a lot more money to throw away than I. Who knows, there may be enough people with money to throw away so that this transporter may never have to work again. It's the American way and P.T. Barnum was right.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    i worked for a guide that viewed each animal as a walkin' price tag and that was it. i don't know the guide who's trying to sell this hunt, but to charge a resident a 2000 trophy fee is basicly the guides perogative...if you don't want to pay for it...don't do it. same as a non resident who says " your prices are too high!", if its to much, don't spend it. plenty of areas in ak for moose and bear combo for less than 6500 bucks... to try and comprehende the morality and ethics behind his decision making is a flat point. we won't ever get it and just be guessing anyway so no real point.
    personally, i don't like trophy fees at all by definition. an extra fee for flying a kill out is one thing, an extra fee for an animal thats not owned and no extra work is involved other than flying....don't get it.
    would be nice if Mike S would jump in on this and give us more of a background to better understand this offer.
    I agree, if this was a Contracted/Guided Hunt...but is this what we are talking about HERE??? Or is this a Handshake/Gentleman's Agreement? Have you ever heard of a Guide Contracting with a Client for an Un-guided Hunt, with the stipulation of Trophy Fees being assessed for animals killed? Speculative...Yes...but worthy of discussion considering the future of Guiding Activity and all the possiblities associated with making it pay the bills. Have you ever considered allowing an additional hunter into your camp and just keep 'em fed and watered...then charging them a Trophy Fee for the opportunity to tag along and kill a critter? Can you as a Guide have a Contract in your back pocket, in camp and get it signed at the last minute, before the shooting starts? Seems like such an easy way to make money and a way to put some extra in your pocket.
    I have read on this very forum of the small time guides not making a decent living by guiding alone...perhaps these types of innovative, unorthodox methods are the future of mitigating that. Dunno???
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  20. #20

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    His lodge, his rules. Nothing to stop you from hiking in from wherever and shooting a bear and hiking back out. I'm sure he'd like to keep the bears around for high dollar non-res clients. Non-res can't hunt moose in the area so he's recruiting residents. I'd say he's making lemonade from some nasty lemons cast his way when the area went res-only for moose.

    Bottom line, don't like it, don't go.

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