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Thread: Cut-down .454 Casull brass for +P .45 Colt loads?

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    Default Cut-down .454 Casull brass for +P .45 Colt loads?

    Would like to reuse Casull brass that is not good for Casull pressure levels anymore
    (too many reloads, next splits, etc.) in a regular .45 Colt Peacmaker type pistol. Anyone have, or know of anyone, with experience using .454 Casull brass cut-down to .45 Colt length for +P .45 Colt handloads? After trimming, would the the internal taper require neck reaming to seat a bullet? The stronger brass might take a little strain off the cylinder walls, but may not do any good as to back-thrust against the recoil shield.

    Thank you for your advice.

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    Thicker heavier brass = less case capacity = higher pressures for any given load. You will be going backwards!

    In any event the brass is not the weak link in a pistol so unless you have some old ballon head cases you are better off with standard brass in a relatively weak pistol like the Peacemaker type pistol. Ditto for the S&W N frames in .45 calibers.

    Enjoy your pistol with standard loads and leave the heavy stuff to your .454. If you want to utilize your cut down .454 cases use them for light target loads only.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bukshot View Post
    Would like to reuse Casull brass that is not good for Casull pressure levels anymore
    (too many reloads, next splits, etc.) in a regular .45 Colt Peacmaker type pistol. Anyone have, or know of anyone, with experience using .454 Casull brass cut-down to .45 Colt length for +P .45 Colt handloads? After trimming, would the the internal taper require neck reaming to seat a bullet? The stronger brass might take a little strain off the cylinder walls, but may not do any good as to back-thrust against the recoil shield.

    Thank you for your advice.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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  3. #3

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    I haven't tried it with the 454, but I regularly trim old 44 Special cases shorter to make 44 Russian. I haven't got around to it with 44 Mag cases, so I'm not sure about the need for reaming. My instinct is no for the 44 mag, but that probably doesn't mean a thing for 454.

    It would be easy enough to try it, and might be a way to "recycle" old 454 cases rather than buying new 45 Colt cases. It might also be a nice thing to do it if someday you couldn't come up with the Colt cases, too. But I'd sure suspect that the case heads are thicker and would require load adjustment for guns not built for higher pressures.

    I'm not particularly reverent about original case designations if they can be reformed to some other round. I once bought a case of new 7x57 brass, and they became 257 Roberts, 257 AI, 6mm Rem and 8x57 cases, while a goodly number stayed 7x57. A couple of years ago I found a great deal on a case of new 30-30 brass. Some is still 30-30, but the rest spawned 32 Special, 25-35, 357 Herret, 30 Herret and 219 Zipper.

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    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    it sounds like a lot of work for a little return.....if the brass is unsafe for it's present caliber, get rid of it to avoid a problem.
    happy trails.
    jh

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Thicker heavier brass = less case capacity = higher pressures for any given load....
    It depends on the brass. Starline brass there is no difference between 45 Colt and 454 other than the primer pockets.

    Buckshot- What do you mean by "+P" 45 Colt loads? 30000 psi Ruger Only loads as published by Hodgdon? Or 50,000 5 shot 45 Colt Linebaugh loads? Big difference... Personally I would have no problem trimming the 454 brass to 45 Colt length and loading them up. But, I'd probably load em up 255ers over 8gr Unique with a standard small rifle primers. No need for magnums.

    And remember. The 454 Casull was developed with modern 45 Colt brass. Once it became a SAAMI accepted round the case was lengthened 1/10 of an inch to keep the 454 from being chambered in 45 Colt guns.

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    Default Here's a project I'm working on....

    I am currently working up a round I'll call the "454 Snyd" I'd been caling it the "454 Short" but the 454 Snyd has a better ring to it .

    The goal is to be able to shoot these 355gr LBT hammers in the 454 Puma levergun.



    Loaded in 454 brass they won't cycle with this big metplat. In 45 Colt brass no prob. But, I'd like to be able to push these at 454 levels in the Puma. My 45 Colt load is 21.5gr H110 and is a max load and is accurate and about 1200fps in my SBH. I could stuff more powder in the case but don't feel comfortable doing that and the SBH doesn't need it. I also don't want to take the chance of mixing up ammo and shooting an over max/high pressure load in my wheelgun. So, I decided I'd trim 454 brass down, seat and crimp some dummy rounds to where they'd cycle in the levergun and see if I could have more case capacity than the 45 Colt brass. I ended up at 1.330. 45 Colt brass is 1.285, 454 is 1.385 so I ended up in the middle. The 454 Snyd is about half way between the 45 Colt and 454. Plus, since it's headstamped 454 that should help keep from accidentally stuffing them into my 45 Colt SBH.

    I have in the past loaded a 360gr Cast Performance boolit in 454 brass trimmed to 1.365. That bullet seats deeper in the case than the 355gr Hammer I cast. I don't have one to measure but I do have this old pic and you can see the difference.



    I bet it's close to .050 or more shorter. My observation/conclusion is that the 355gr Hammer in the 1.330 454 Snyd case has the same case capacity (or more) than the 360gr CP boolit seated in 1.365 454 brass. I've got some loaded up with 25, 26 and 27 gr H110 but haven't been able to make it to the range yet. Too cold and dark.

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    The big problem I see (other than the obvious pressure dangers playing this game) with 454 brass in a 45 Colt gun may give you some fail to fires due to the much harder to dent small rifle primers. This is a well known issue even in some 454s not striking the primer hard enough resulting in FTFs so I would think it would be an even bigger issue in a gun designed for soft large pistol primers.

    I would go the 454 plinking round direction with your brass, trim them back to good meat and light load them with Unique or Bullseye. If I were gonna play with a 45 Colt +P in a 45 gun (which I donít think is a good idea other than the Ruger only loads) I would be using 460 brass with large rifle primers not with 454 brass.
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    Nice work Snyd.

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    The only reason to cut down brass is when there isn't factory option, and there is outstanding 45lc brass that will handle the highest pressures a handgun can dishout.

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    Years ago Dick Metcalf did an article in Shooting Times on this very subject. He was not trying to re-use old brass, but seeing if he could get more velocity with the small rifle primer in 45 Colt. He did get some velocity gains as I recall.

    Bottom line is, yes it can be done if you want to. If FTF became an issue the primer pocket for small rifle is the same as that of the small pistol, so just use them. (Large rifle primer pockets are deeper than than pistol)

    DO NOT use heavier loads in a "Peacemaker type" revolver no matter what brass is used.

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    If the brass has been loaded many times, I would not load +p LC loads in it. I am sure you could trim it and load plinker loads, but the hot stuff will likely cause dangerous results.

    I am with BIG MUDDY in that you SHOULD NOT use high pressure ammo in a peacemaker type pistol.

    Just my .02

  12. #12

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    Thank you all for the input. Has Snyd posted a review of the Puma .454 Carbine anywhere? What kind of alternative is it to a .45-70? What do you consider its maximum effective range with aperture sights? Would this be an optimum choice for backpacking considering the power, compactness, and amount of ammo that could be carried?

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    Ya I've posted some stuff. I worked up a 335gr load to 1900fps. I've shot my 355gr 45 Colt loads in it. They get about 1400fps if I remember right. 1200 in my 7.5 inch SBH. Mine is a 20inch barrel, they made a 16 incher for awhile. It's a nice little carbine that packs a heck of a wallop and holds 10 of those 335gr thumpers in the tube. I just got a 400+gr .458 mould. I'm gonna size them down to .452 and see what I can come up with. Here's a guy shooting a 400gr at 1875fps in the Puma. That should do the trick. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=puma+400

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