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Thread: Lets take one small step to make kenai river fish less ugly!!!

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Default Lets take one small step to make kenai river fish less ugly!!!

    Please send your comments to:

    ATTN: BOF Comments
    Boards Support Section
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game
    Box 11526
    Juneau AK 99811

    Fax 907 465 6094

    If you think fish on the Kenai deserve barbless hooks PLEASE send some comments that way
    Here's better instructions and the proposal booklet:
    http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/f...prop-final.pdf

    Please voice your support for proposal 215 prohibiting barbed hooks when using beads on the Kenai River!!!
    Please oppose proposal 216 which would raise the size limit on rainbow trout retained in the Kenai to 24 inches
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Even if the BOF is too lame to pass the no-brainer barbless proposal into the reg books, that doesn't stop folks from voluntarily going barbless or modelling good stewardship by example.

    If you have friends and acquaintances that continue to use barbs, remember that peer pressure can be a STRONG motivator. Don't be timid about promoting the merits of barbless trout fishing.... esp when it's largely a C&R affair anyway.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    What if you have no friends or acquaintances?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    What if you have no friends or acquaintances?
    You just gotta get away from that computer more often, Ken.

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Hey! Do you have any idea the revenue the peninsula hospital would lose if they passed this lame law? Its also nice to have a snelled hook w/ a big old barb for when Im fishing rainbows to fill my freezer. I like to let them fulfill their true destiny, I'm pretty sure my entertainment wasn't in the forefront of Gods thought process when he designed the trout. Oh and I like a barb when I'm culling dollies out of the system

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    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
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    AK P. Monkey boy....thanks for "spot-lighting" these items.

    I also oppose raising the size limit to 24 inches.
    As the size limit is established right now, IF anyone wants to keep a trout or char to eat, it will fit perfectly in a frying pan.
    But by the time a Kenai fish hits 24 inches, that guy deserves to live and grow towards 30 inches.

    ...have not used a barb within the upper/middle Kenai in 10 years...
    dennis

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    Proposal to raise the retention size limit to 24 inches is one that I am strongly opposed to. I'm guessing that there will be very little support for this one at the upcoming UCI BOF meetings.

    The barbless while fishing with a bead proposal I am not so sure about. You cannot just put this in and say barbless only when you are TROUT fishing while using a bead as that would be impossible to enforce. I cannot imagine how law would interpet this one as written.

    I know folks that use beads to fish for sockeye as it swings thru the water better than a streamer (coho) fly, some use a bead on their line above their kwikfish, magwart, or hot shot to protect the knot & to keep the grass muck stuff off of the plug, and pretty much everyone that uses a spin n glo has a bead or two on this type of rig while fishing for coho or kings. Barbless would be required in all of these examples the way this proposal is written. How would barbless help in such a situation as this?

    Maybe modify this proposal to say barbless when fishing the Kenai River above Skilak Lake but not in the fly fishing only area of the Rusisian River conflence. Maybe even include the area from Upper Killey after September 1 (use of bait closes from Upper Killey To Skilak on September 1) no matter what type of lure, bead, or fly that you using and no matter what you are fishing for. Either of these two options would be a much better proposal IMO.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I'd personally like to see the entire river go totally barbless and anywhere with catch and release for salmon or trout (like the slot limit for kings)... But barbless with a bead is better than nothing... We gotta take baby steps...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Going barbless in areas that are "no bait" or single hook only like I mentioned in my last post is not taking a baby step. This would cover the area of the Kenai that is the most heavily fished for Trout while trying to minimize the impact of those fishing for salmon.

    Going barbless on the Kenai for salmon is more like running a marathon than comparing it to taking baby steps.

    Taking other user groups into consideration is a big key to whether a proposal gets support at the BOF meetings IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
    Taking other user groups into consideration is a big key to whether a proposal gets support at the BOF meetings IMO.
    +1 Iceblue, good point. Monkey: hardly anyone retains trout (myself included) even where/when it's allowed and the stock certainly has been able to handle it...so why not allow it? C&R zealots jamming their own religion down everyone's throat.

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    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
    Proposal to raise the retention size limit to 24 inches is one that I am strongly opposed to. I'm guessing that there will be very little support for this one at the upcoming UCI BOF meetings.

    The barbless while fishing with a bead proposal I am not so sure about. You cannot just put this in and say barbless only when you are TROUT fishing while using a bead as that would be impossible to enforce. I cannot imagine how law would interpet this one as written.

    I know folks that use beads to fish for sockeye as it swings thru the water better than a streamer (coho) fly, some use a bead on their line above their kwikfish, magwart, or hot shot to protect the knot & to keep the grass muck stuff off of the plug, and pretty much everyone that uses a spin n glo has a bead or two on this type of rig while fishing for coho or kings. Barbless would be required in all of these examples the way this proposal is written. How would barbless help in such a situation as this?

    Maybe modify this proposal to say barbless when fishing the Kenai River above Skilak Lake but not in the fly fishing only area of the Rusisian River conflence. Maybe even include the area from Upper Killey after September 1 (use of bait closes from Upper Killey To Skilak on September 1) no matter what type of lure, bead, or fly that you using and no matter what you are fishing for. Either of these two options would be a much better proposal IMO.
    Exactly, this proposal which has great intensions, will not pass if they only target beads for trout fishing in a given area. It would have to be worded to include all types of tackle/lures/flies in that area for all species.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Having never intentionally released a legal fish in my life...

    I want my barbs to increase the chances that the food I hooked will make it to the frying pan.

    If ya'll want to make a barbless rule, just add it to the "can't remove a fish from the water if you intend to release it" rule. I.E. if you intend to release the fish, then you must use a barbless hook. That's it. Just one sentence that addresses the intent of the fisherman instead of these ridiculous blanket gear regulations that do nothing but keep the tackle shops in business by forcing the food fisherman to continually buy new "legal" gear to do the same job. It's already dang neigh impossible to figure out what gear you can use on what part of the river and when.

    I put C&R fishing almost as low on the ethical behavior list as fur trapping. Though I never try to get the regulators to ban or restrict either C&R or trapping, as I choose to turn a blind eye. I'd appreciate it if folks from such groups don't try to make rules on their own which have overflowing effect on the rest of us meat hunters.
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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    regulations that do nothing but keep the tackle shops in business by forcing the food fisherman to continually buy new "legal" gear to do the same job.
    Continually buy new gear?

    You mean like pliers?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  14. #14

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    Ahhh yes, I am reminded by my discussion with an undercover USFWS warden on the Russian a few years ago when I asked him about the possibility of FFO waters (like the Russian) going to a barbless hook requirement. He replied, "that will happen when they pry my cold dead fingers from around my barbed hook". I took that comment as it ain't happening any time soon!

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
    Taking other user groups into consideration is a big key to whether a proposal gets support at the BOF meetings IMO.

    I'm not saying go fly fishing only (although I'd love to see it) I'm not saying return the river to C&R only (the maximum size limit seems to be working great) I'm saying lets take this one baby step to making the fish not look so dang ugly. The proposal right now is a small little baby step, which is a compromise trying to take into account all the rivers users. How are you gonna make the whole river barbless with the amount of salmon fishing?

    Barbs are pretty unnecessary for landing fish anyway.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorcalBob View Post
    Ahhh yes, I am reminded by my discussion with an undercover USFWS warden on the Russian a few years ago when I asked him about the possibility of FFO waters (like the Russian) going to a barbless hook requirement. He replied, "that will happen when they pry my cold dead fingers from around my barbed hook". I took that comment as it ain't happening any time soon!
    Wow! A federal employee with traditional values and ballz. There is a rare being!
    As JOAT suggested, if you're just gonna endlessly play with fish, keep them in the water and forgo the photos of your prowess. The rest of us, who are meat fishers, would rather you keep us out of the equation.

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    The way the proposal is written it is asking for barbless for the entire Kenai River and its tribs while fishing with a bead. As written this proposal will effect all salmon fisherfolks that have a bead on their line in any shape or form. It would be impossible to enforce just as a only when trout fishing regulation. The proposal does not mention in its wording on how the regulation would read that it intends for this to be a trout fishing only proposal. Only in its "issue" paragraph does the author talk about trout fishing with beads.

    This is not a baby step as written.

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    Member FishGod's Avatar
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    Once again I applaud the intent of this proposal, but when a 24 inch bow is missing it's lower jaw, that is the result of a much larger hook (flesh fly, leech, coho fly, quick fish etc.). That is not the result of a size 8 octopus hook with\without the barb from a bead fisherman. The main issue here is how people handle the fish and the care given to properly remove the hook without damage.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishGod View Post
    Once again I applaud the intent of this proposal, but when a 24 inch bow is missing it's lower jaw, that is the result of a much larger hook (flesh fly, leech, coho fly, quick fish etc.). That is not the result of a size 8 octopus hook with\without the barb from a bead fisherman. The main issue here is how people handle the fish and the care given to properly remove the hook without damage.
    I agree

    I think the entire state should be barbless only when fishing for wild trout... how you'd enforce this who knows...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  20. #20
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Clearly this rule should pass but only for 8mm beads...

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