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Thread: Subsistence?

  1. #1
    Member barrowdave's Avatar
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    Question Subsistence?

    I just read on another thread someone say that subsistence is a "crock"; because where do they get their lettuce etc. I moved to Barrow a while ago and the first time I went to the grocery store almost had cardiac arrest! Small peanut butter, small jelly, loaf of bread and 1 liter coke over $20. I am sure there are abuses of this system as there are almost any. But in many cases subsistence is not a "crock"; it is existance. Pay $8 for a quart of OJ and see if you wouldn't appreciate being able to supplement your family's meals with a little meat in the freezer. Thanks, not trying to offend; just another point of view.

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    Default

    Majority of today's people who claim to live a subsistance lifestyle could not survive in a true subsistance lifestyle. Too many TV's in the villages.

  3. #3
    FBKShunter
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    Default Still a crock

    Many small towns all over the nation are disappearing. Just look at south and north dakota. Guess what happened to the people that lived there. They moved to areas of the country where they can make a living, and their former towns are ghost towns. My point you ask?

    Why should the rest of alaska subsidize small villages. If you can't afford to live there move. If a village is no longer economically viable maybe it's for a reason. Time to move on and go to the places where you can make a living and support your family instead of asking for special privledges.

    Subsistence has no place in modern society. What happens when there are more subsistence hunters than available game? With population growth it will eventually happen, probably sooner than later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBKShunter
    Subsistence has no place in modern society. What happens when there are more subsistence hunters than available game? With population growth it will eventually happen, probably sooner than later.
    FBKShunter right now there are probably more hunters in the state than moose, does that affect anything? NOPE, last time I checked subsistance users still have to apply by rules, if game starts to run short, they will tighten up the game limits. A perfect example is all the villages in the Kuskokwim Delta have started to rely on the caribou for fresh meat. Well this next year they cut the limit of bou from 5 to 3. They don't care how many subsistance hunters or how much they depend on 5 bou, they decided there are not enough, so they limit the amount that can be taken.

    I understand you have strong feelings about subsistance users, but by making a statement like that, it does not make you look real bright.

  5. #5
    Member barrowdave's Avatar
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    I write grants so I can assure you that you are not subsidizing a small village any more than other parts of Alaska. Modern society? You mean like New York, Tampa, Chicago. Those wonderful places and their wonderful way of life! Alaska is beautiful not only because of its scenery; but also because it has not capitulated to the modern society lifestyle completely. This is the last frontier and most I know are proud of that; proud of the Iditarod; proud of people full of knowledge of the outdoors like yourself and others. Turn your statement around; if you want to live a subsistence lifestyle do it; if you want to live in the city do it. I will agree that too many areas are considered subsistence but there are those that need it. If done right there would never be more subsistence hunters than game because many "hunters" couldn't do the lifestyle.

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    I don't believe in subsistence, not in today's world, anyways. I don't care if people live in villages or not. They still drive around in 4-wheelers and snowmachines(probably bought with state or government money), have tv's, computer and internet, etc.

  7. #7
    FBKShunter
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishermann222
    FBKShunter right now there are probably more hunters in the state than moose, does that affect anything? NOPE, last time I checked subsistance users still have to apply by rules, if game starts to run short, they will tighten up the game limits. A perfect example is all the villages in the Kuskokwim Delta have started to rely on the caribou for fresh meat. Well this next year they cut the limit of bou from 5 to 3. They don't care how many subsistance hunters or how much they depend on 5 bou, they decided there are not enough, so they limit the amount that can be taken.

    I understand you have strong feelings about subsistance users, but by making a statement like that, it does not make you look real bright.
    My point exactly so when you can no longer subsistence hunt what will you do. Because the limit will eventually be Zero. Will you then move? Or will you ask the state and feds for more assistance? Maybe your the one who's not so bright eh, maybe if you were you would figure out where your own logic is taking you!

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    Default assistance

    FBKShunter don't assume just because people live in the bush that we get assistance, I don't get any, not a chance of ever getting any for me. Do I subsist? Yes!! Will I live without it? Yes!! Keep wishing for everyone from the bush to move in, and you will quickly realize the cost of getting to game will increase at a scary rate. There will be so many people on the road system, that when you want to hit your favorite lake, or moose spot, everyone and there grandma will be there as well. I am really confused as to why you would want more people living around you.

    One other thing FBKShunter, where I live the only thing we can subsist on are birds. The reindeer are owned by the local native corp, and the musk ox herd is not a subsistance herd, anyone can get a permit if you have the time and money. Next time you are hunting in the bush or going through a village, please express your opinion to the people that live in the village.

  9. #9
    FBKShunter
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    Default fisherman222

    Quote Originally Posted by fishermann222
    FBKShunter don't assume just because people live in the bush that we get assistance, I don't get any, not a chance of ever getting any for me. Do I subsist? Yes!! Will I live without it? Yes!! Keep wishing for everyone from the bush to move in, and you will quickly realize the cost of getting to game will increase at a scary rate. There will be so many people on the road system, that when you want to hit your favorite lake, or moose spot, everyone and there grandma will be there as well. I am really confused as to why you would want more people living around you.

    One other thing FBKShunter, where I live the only thing we can subsist on are birds. The reindeer are owned by the local native corp, and the musk ox herd is not a subsistance herd, anyone can get a permit if you have the time and money. Next time you are hunting in the bush or going through a village, please express your opinion to the people that live in the village.
    Well I'm glad to hear you will live without subsistence. If you would listen to most who argue for subsistence you would think everyone would starve if they didn't have it. In fact I'm willing to bet if all the special subsistence seasons were closed for 1 year not 1 alaskan would starve, just a guess though.
    By the way you can move to fairbanks any time you would like. In fact there are a few houses in my neighborhood for sale. I might even end up taking you to that favorite moose hunting spot of mine. I gotta warn ya though, I'm even more opinionated in person.

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    Default Subsistence is far more than big game...

    Although big game is a large part of it, there are many more beavers being harvested right now than moose & caribou, I've even seen muskrat hanging to dry to be eaten...so I wouldn't cry about big game, subsistence will continue even without big game availablity. As well, subsistence isn't about King Salmon either, it's about just about every fish or mullosk out there, from tiny little black fish, lush, white, shee, pike & crabs & crusteaceans of all colors, seals, & walrus, to whales & bears, blackberries, salmonberries, blueberries & lowbush cranberries. So, FBKShunter, go take your crybaby antics home repolish your delivery & come back with something more cogent than bashing people who love to do what they do because this is there home & not yours...Why don't you try to live out in the bush & subsist, last I looked there aren't any laws regulating where you live if you have a lot to build...

  11. #11
    FBKShunter
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    Default goalie

    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie
    Although big game is a large part of it, there are many more beavers being harvested right now than moose & caribou, I've even seen muskrat hanging to dry to be eaten...so I wouldn't cry about big game, subsistence will continue even without big game availablity. As well, subsistence isn't about King Salmon either, it's about just about every fish or mullosk out there, from tiny little black fish, lush, white, shee, pike & crabs & crusteaceans of all colors, seals, & walrus, to whales & bears, blackberries, salmonberries, blueberries & lowbush cranberries. So, FBKShunter, go take your crybaby antics home repolish your delivery & come back with something more cogent than bashing people who love to do what they do because this is there home & not yours...Why don't you try to live out in the bush & subsist, last I looked there aren't any laws regulating where you live if you have a lot to build...
    Last I looked this is my home. So I'm not sure who's the their in "their home" your talking about. If this wasn't my home I probably wouldn't be so passionate about this argument. You obviously have a misplaced sense of ownership over the game and land of alaska. Another symptom of subsistence users. Last I looked all residents of alaska are supposed to be equal. Hence my point and argument.
    And I wasn't the one crying. Was I complaining about the price of milk? Nope. And I wasn't bashing anyone. So may I suggest you take a chill pill stop name calling and come up with a productive argument. Because I'm sure some of the people who are for subsistence are cringing at a few of your statements.

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    Default right on FBKShuntr!!!!

    I'm sure if subsistance was put to a halt nobody would starve. But then you would have an even bigger gripe when those who used to be subsistance users are getting more assistance from taxpayers like us. People won't move because their culture ties them to the land.

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    Default FBKSHunter...

    you are complaining about "the rest of Alaska subsidizing small Villages" Now, how many villages are bringing in the state cash? Plenty, with commercial fishing (the real glut of salmon harvest & not subsistence) oil production, gold mining & forest products & who knows what else...So, with that, I would say that small villages have every right to subsistence hunt & fish as they see fit. I don't know why you really want to be bugged about someone harvesting beaver's & muskrats when you have your Mickey D's & KFC to eat, & finally Last I saw, I don't see any rural residents telling city dwellers how to live there lifestyle...MYOB!!!! as my Dad has always told me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie
    Now, how many villages are bringing in the state cash? Plenty, with commercial fishing (the real glut of salmon harvest & not subsistence) oil production, gold mining & forest products & who knows what else...

    Sorry but 99% of that is coming off State land, hence public land, hence my land, your land and everey other resident of Alaskas land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie
    I don't see any rural residents telling city dwellers how to live there lifestyle
    Then why do we have so many villages around Bethel telling us that we need to go dry when it comes to the issue of alcohol?

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    Default Allen

    Thank GOD you have not gone dry I love nothing more than to come in and indulge

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    Hell Jon I gave up drinking 15 years ago when the price of freight cost more than the beer.

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    Default You know exactly why that is being asked...

    "Then why do we have so many villages around Bethel telling us that we need to go dry when it comes to the issue of alcohol?" umm, what villages are asking villages to go dry there Mr. Glore? I know the villages are putting there input, per AVCP, about an alcohol delivery point, but not to go dry...& for that, Mr. Glore, you know exactly why that's being asked, because majority of the all the bootlegged liquor comes from & through Bethel.

    Thank god for Walmart, & Sports Authority where cheap prices allow me to afford firearms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie
    Mr. Glore, you know exactly why that's being asked, because majority of the all the bootlegged liquor comes from & through Bethel.

    ...
    But weren't people born with the capacity of whether or not to buy booze from a bootlegger? Nobody ever put a gun to anybodies head and said you have to buy this bottle of booze for $50.

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    Default only 50?

    Hey Allen you mean they only cost 50 bucks in Bethel? Wow, it is 4 times that much out here.

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