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Thread: Senate Bill 24

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    Default Senate Bill 24

    Senator McGuire has prefiled SB 24 . This bill is designed to put Sport Fishing Guides Under a board that is similar to the big game board. Do any of you guys have a copy of the Bill and the guide lines that it is requiring? If so please post.
    Thanks
    Captain DD

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    Default SB24 Attachment

    Here is a copy of the bill
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    My question is who is Mcguire a shill for? She might be good at bowling scores and then having the cops called argueing on the score but... Can we honestly believe she thought this up herself? We are talking about all rivers but the Kenai cause the Kenai has it's own management plan. Anybody got any 411?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    I think the Kenai River guides are behind it. They want exclusive right to the Kenai by putting un needed regulations on the rest of the state. I believe they can not give out limited entry with out a constitional amendment so they are putting this in to accomplish their goals. May be they should just define the guides as commerical fisherman and that would make it possible to control the Kenai River guides with out a bogus fish board.

  5. #5

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    Hey Whop, wake up. It's the same guys you shared a booth with at the Sportsman's show. In case you haven't figured it out yet they are nothing more than a guide organization in disguise. This bill is the same thing they tried to get the department to front a couple of years ago when Hepler was the SF Director. It meant an untimely death because it was so bogus which garnered about 80% negative comments. Mostly from other guides around the state. This is just a way for the Kenai guides to feather their own nest and not have to have the public involved when Parks or another agency decides that they have to reduce the number of boats on the Kenai. I suspect Mcguire must have been at the clam bake this summer and now they've found a way to use her too. Business as usual for this group.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    I listen to all sides before I make up my own mind. That said, I'll run it by my Booth sharing buddies and find out what they are thinking, before I jump to any conclusions. Thanks for the input though!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Default SB24, Solving an Issue B4 it is too Big to Resolve

    Some critics of SB 24 are stating that it is better to have all user groups spread thin, the sport fishing public, personal use, sport fishing guides, commercial fishermen, subsistence, etc... until everyone gets a paper thin share of the resource.

    To those that say 'let the market sort it out', let's take the traffic light out at Dimond and Old Seward and see how that works out.

    Is this the best way to manage our fisheries resource? Those on a guided trip are statistically way more successful that those that are self guided. If the number of guides continues to grow exponentially, then restrictions will be made to seasons and bag limits for the rest of us. Less fishing opportunity for the sport angler, while continuing to grow the numbers of sport fishing guides.

    Is it not preferable to limit the entry of sport fishing guides into the industry now, and protect the angling public from future, and likely more harsh season and bag limit restrictions?

    For those of us that know big game guides in Alaska, you know that in some of the prime hunting areas, the guides are over running each other. King Solomon is not available to sort that one out, but for the sport fishing guide issue, SB24 would go a long way towards solving these issues earlier, rather than later.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting this captaindd.

    I didn't see a fiscal note attached, nor mention of how a new sport fishing guide board would be fully funded from sport fish guide-outfitter license fees.

    It occurs to me that perhaps it would work better and be more cost-effective if all "guide outfitters," whether on the game or fish side, were under one commercial services board.

    It's the same general sportfish guide concession plan we are currently undergoing with big game guides, which has been fraught with problems from the get go, and if it ever does go through will be challenged in court. DNR can't afford to take on the big game guide concession program, state has already given over a hundred grand toward it, and currently that whole endeavor as far as the next draft implementation plan is going to be contracted out to a private entity. Which should be very interesting as far as what "entity" gets that contract <grin>.

    No mention in SB 24 of any real particulars on how many sportfish guides would be allowed in each area, how many assistant guides would be allowed, whether or not there would be client or harvest limits etc.

    I really think that we do need limits on all guides to protect the resource and reduce conflicts, but constitutionally it's problematic. The only way around it is a concession program and I am not at all happy with how that has evolved on the game side...it is turning into a boondoggle and you have the more powerful or politically connected or wealthier guides seeming to have a much greater potential to get a concession. And the big game guide industry is pushing to allow the sale of those concessions too.

    I think Lesil needs to hammer out more details on this one, figure out costs and funding and how it would really work. We certainly don't need to go through the same thing with a concession program plan we have for the past few years on the guide side, hundreds of thousands of GF monies spent and we are really not any closer to a final plan that would hold up to court scrutiny or be fair to all guides.

    The idea to limit guides is I think a good one. And to have a board that oversees the industry. Devil is always in the details...

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    Mark they way it is written up it causes problems. What is a Master Fishing Guide? On Salt water there is none. You have a Captain with a Master LC ? What about the apprentice guides? On Salt water they are deck hands or crew members. In order to be a Coast Guard Captain you must be 19 years old. What I think they should do is define the sport fishing guide as a commerical fisherman who takes people fishing for money and then regulate it that way. This bill does not promote safety or any thing else it has one purpose to give the Kenai River Guides a piece of the action. Look what it takes to become a Master Guide. You must be an aprentice guide, then a guide then a Master Guide. You start as a apprentice fish baiter, then go to a Guide Baiter and finally end up as a Master Baiter.

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    Default Some people are seeing boogiemen

    I read the bill and I don't see where it gives "THE KENAI RIVER GUIDES A HEADS UP". I think some people are thinking something naferious is going on when it is not. Limiting guides would be a good thing, I would think. Making a guide board is a major pain, just look at the Hunting guide board deal that is taking years to sort out? The devil is most deff. in the details. Putting this onus on the big bad Kenai guides I find a little out there, JMO.
    When I ask for more regulation in the dipnetting arena, I get a lot of feedback from dippers to just leave it alone, don't upset the balance. Sometimes a guy has to do what he thinks is right even though his peers are not agreeing to his line of thought. A limit on guides can only be a positive note, again, my own opinion. We all got one
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    I've read through SB 24 several times and to be honest I think that it is a positive step and headed in the right direction. Who really believes that the requirements to become a sport fish guide in Alaska will not be further regulated in the future? Folks might not want to hear this but if it is not this SB24 then another model will be built before to long but change is coming.

    A couple of things that are in this bill that I strongly favor are 1) no longer would a person be able to become a sportfish guide without some minimum requirements such as having worked under another guide for two years. 2) ADF&G will be able to collect information from everyone involved in the sportfish guiding industry by bringing the transporters, outfitters, and anyone that books fishing trips into the fold and 3) it is an attempt to promote economic stability within the sf guide industry by dealing with issues before they become regulation. Yes, I know that we have the BOF process but more often than not by the time an issue gets to that level it leads to some type of regulation in regards to social or allocative type of issues.

    A couple of things that are in this bill that I have questions on are 1) the concessionaire part and 2) how the relationship between Special Management Areas such as Kenai River, Federal National Refuges, and ADF&G will work. I have questions and am very interested to see the end result but I still think that this bill is way more positive than it is negetive for the sf guide industry.

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    As a salt water guide this bills does not promote safety and all it does is add more regulation. As a salt water guide that uses a motorize vessel for hire I have to have a Coast Guard License which reguires you to be age 19 and have 360 days sea time and take a test, vessel has to have all required safety gear, A TWIC card for security with a back ground test, be in a random drug testing program,Take CPR every year, The state requires a business License, State Fishing License,$300000 of insurance, First Aid Card, State Guide License, the City of Valdez require a City Business License, and the Federal Goverment Requires a Halibut Limited Entry Permit. The requirement for a person to be an apprentice for two years does not meet the Coast Guard Requirement and is designed at persons who have the required Coast Guard time to get the Coast Guard License but have not served under a Master Guide to be denied a guide License. In Valdez last year there where only 4 deck hands total for 29 Charter Vessels that does not leave many people to become guides at a later date.

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    Well said captaindd, and if you are an inspected vessel the list of necessary licenses and permits gets even longer. How much regulation do you need on one industry? It seems crazy not to stop and see what changes the halibut limited entry will bring about before enacting several more sets of regulations for the salt water side of things. I cannot speak for the fresh water guiding side as I do not guide freshwater.
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  14. #14

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    Seems like it's all about control.

    It should be making some lodge owners nervous. You know the lodges who find a new sucker every year from down south to come up and guide from them. Pay them low, treat them like dirt, and not expect them return. Maybe it isn't such a bad thing.

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    Read SB24 carefully...

    Everyone can keep doing what they are doing now. The lodges, charters, single guide operators can all keep going as they are now.
    This would not be an additional license. It creates a board so that the sport fishing guide industry, not Fish and Game, controls how sport fish guiding is conducted.
    This bill is something that we should all get behind. Now is the time, before there are so many people operating as guides that it is virtually impossible to manage. Look a the Big Game Guide industry. They are having the problems that the sport fishing industry will be having very shortly (or as some think, we are having now.)

    Look at all the game that is going to draw, reduced seasons, etc...

    Control the growth of our own numbers now, or have others control it for us later.

    It is hard to understand those that say "let's let everyone get into guiding that wants in..."
    If that is what we are going to accept, then we need to get used to more restrictions, reduced seasons and bag limits for everyone.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke View Post
    Look a the Big Game Guide industry. They are having the problems that the sport fishing industry will be having very shortly (or as some think, we are having now.)

    Look at all the game that is going to draw, reduced seasons, etc...
    Gee Slowpoke you really should look at the Big Game Industry. They've had a board for years and can't figure it out. Yet you seem to think a Fish board would solve a similar problem. Get real! The SFGSB is just a rewrite of the game board licensing. It's unnecessary and total BS. Guides aren't gathering the resource, the people the serve are. We should be fighting for more allocation not further restriction to access and this bill will do nothing more then hinder access by increasing cost and soon, just like a hunting guide, most can't afford to use the service.

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    Default allocation

    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    We should be fighting for more allocation
    Should everyone be fighting for more allocation?

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    I can't believe how many people want more government control over their lives, Wake up sheeple,,!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Lets consider...

    Let say for example that you sell diesel engines for a living.
    No crime there, except your view of this legislation might be skewed towards letting an unlimited number of entrants into the guided sport fishing industry, at the expense of the anglers who will be restricted down the road.

    Let's consider:
    The number of halibut is not growing.
    The number of guides is growing.
    Future restrictions will be...?
    You got it, less allocation for everyone, except maybe the commercial guys. They have way more lobbying power.
    I don't have anything against new entrants into guiding. They just have to realize that to get into a viable industry, they will have to apprentice. It would be nice to stake a section of land for homesteading, but those days are over my friend. So are the days of unlimited number of guides.
    We either stick together now and work this out amoungst the group that is currently guiding, or be dealt with down the road by having someone else limit the guys that have only been in the business 2, 3, or 4 years.

    As far as solving the big game guiding industry over pressure issue by giving them more allocation... at whose expense?
    Same with sport fish. The general public will soon wake up and say "how did we get to the point where my fishing is restricted, so that the number of guides could remain unlimited?"

    Believe me, I am not for more government, but this bill will go a long way to keep sport fishing opportunities available to all of us.

  20. #20
    Member Mel Roe's Avatar
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    This newly constructed board would do nothing to stop an increase in fishing guides. There is no limiting factor to how many guides there can be under the new board. Sure there would be an apprenticeship but just like the big game guides there could still be a larger number of new guides entering than those retiring. I hope you are right about the general public waking up and asking how their fishing is getting restricted. When all of sport fishing is only taking 12% of the halibut how can they levy the restrictions on them?
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