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Thread: Long distance shooting rifle

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    Default Long distance shooting rifle

    Looking for advise on a rifle and scope combo to shoot past the 500 yard mark. Which would be your set up and why. I thinking about getting a new rifle but I want this one to be able to reach out and drive nails around 400 to 600 yards. Must be 30 cal too. I'll be using for hunting here in Alaska.

    I own two hunting rifles 300 win mag. Dad gave me when i was 16. Then a 350 mag is what Ive used the last coule years like if alot everything I have shot dropped were it was standing. Just don't work very well pasted 175 yards. I
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    Looking for advise on a rifle and scope combo to shoot past the 500 yard mark. Which would be your set up and why. I thinking about getting a new rifle but I want this one to be able to reach out and drive nails around 400 to 600 yards. Must be 30 cal too. I'll be using for hunting here in Alaska.

    I own two hunting rifles 300 win mag. Dad gave me when i was 16. Then a 350 mag is what Ive used the last coule years like if alot everything I have shot dropped were it was standing. Just don't work very well pasted 175 yards. I
    4-600 yards is not generally considered LR shooting, in so much as lots of combinations will work well at that distance. IME the weak link is always the person behind the rifle. Just for kicks--I consider the 350 RM at least a 300 yard hunting cartridge, further in the proper rifle.

    To your question, I'd lock in on 3.5-10x40 Leupold with an elevation turret and it'd be tough to improve upon a 308 Winchester if you're limited to factory ammo. Better still IMO would be the same scope affixed to a fast twist .223 Remington and practice at these ranges until you are proficient and then move to a different cartridge/caliber if you find the .223 lacking.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

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    We talked before on the 350. you were correcting me. Looking for a big cal. than 308. thanks mike
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    300 RUM. I have a Boone and Crockett 4.5-14 VX-3 x 50mm on mine. It is a standard Remington Model 700 SPS and with the Boone and Crockett scope I can consistently put out 5-6 inch groups at 550 yards (the max range I have set up targets at Snow Shoe Gun club out of Soldotna). That rifle and scope combo is hard to beat. I have been using 180 grain Swift Sirocco factory ammo, but will be reloading for it when I go through a couple more boxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    Looking for advise on a rifle and scope combo to shoot past the 500 yard mark. Must be 30 cal too. I'll be using for hunting here in Alaska.

    I own two hunting rifles 300 win mag.
    I agree with Cor on the .308 Win being accurate. I shoot mine at 500 yards frequently with great results on paper. It's easy on the shooter and easy to load if you go that route. However, it's not much of a speedster beyond 500 yards and proper bullet performance on game at the distances you've set up for us would be questionable.

    You say you have a 300WM. That is an improvement on the .308Win for LR shooting and works quite well with 190gr bullets.

    You also say it must be a 30 cal. If you want more bang then you need more powder. The next step up from the 300WM with noteworthy increases would be the 300RUM. This rifle would test your shoulder for sure.

    You mentioned hunting with this rifle. Keep in mind you need to hit these animals with enough velocity remaining at your shooting distance to get expansion and deep enough penetration or you're giving them a big head start when they take off into the woods.

    Long range shooting requires lots of practice and knowledge of your equipment. I've taken 3 courses and still learn every time I shoot beyond 500 yards. The 308 Win is cheap to shoot and very accurate, the 300RUM is a different story at $4.00 per shot factory loaded.

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    .338 or .50bmg end of story
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    don't know about the rest of you folks here but "my" feelings on the 300 RUM are that it's just the "next big thing in overbore cartridges" - give me a well made 300 Win Mag and time to build a load for it and I will shoot shoulder to shoulder with anyone shooting that one or a 378/300 - I see a quote here often ... "speed sells & accuracy kills" and THAT says it all from my view - I shoot .308 alot and I agree completely with the other fans - I would also expand my statement/challenge to include a good 338 Win Mag - Off the shelf Remington 700's are not an everyday occurrence (even though urban legend says other) and if a hunter is going to poke at game beyond 400 yards then that hunter owes it to that game, themself AND the rest of us to make **** sure the rifle combo is ABSOLUTELY up to the task - I realize I will not make many "new friends" by saying so but IMO anyone who leaves the house intending to shoot big game at 500 yards is not much of a "hunter", again IMO - "to each his own" but please don't give us all a black eye in the process - learn to shoot what you have and learn to "hunt" ...

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    1COR15's comments are on the money. The 308 will do the job to 800 or so yards. Keeping the bullet supersonic to 1000 yards can be a trick. Accuracy will go to heck when the bullet falls back through the sonic barrier from super to subsonic. Really you need a cartridge in the 300 win mag class to do the job. But if you are only worried about 500+ yards then you can pretty well pick any common 30 cal cartridge and do just fine. Remember, velocity doesn't make accuracy. Shooter skill is the biggest part in shooting at distance. Wind, mirage, temperature must all be contended with to make a shot at extended distance, plus, the farther you go out, the more important it is that you know the distance to the target, because the bullet is falling to earth more rapidly. Everybody wants a 50, but that is a whole different ball of wax. Portability, cost, etc, etc. Most folks can't shoot one well enough at distance to make it useful.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Thanks, back country, my "opinion" as well. If you can "hunt" then you shouldn't ever have to make a shot on game at 500+ yards.....
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    Everybody wants a 50
    Not everybody.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
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    True enough, not everybody. But this shouldn't digress into a question of hunting ethics when the OP was basically asking a rifle/cartridge question. The "hunting" forum would gladly host that question. This is, after all, the "shooting" forum.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    I understand the want for more power, but you already having 2 300WM's has me wondering "why".

    That being said, I shoot a 308 and a 338WM. 308 with 165 partition handloads and am gonna do some testing with 180 accubonds just cuz. 338WM is spitting 225 Partitions at 2900 and when I'm on my game it'll give me sub MOA to 600 yards reliably. When I'm not on my game, it's a touch over. Both are on syn factory winch stocks that have been glass/pillar bedded and identical trigger jobs done with the pin dropping at 3 1/4 pounds.

    I'll echo the other's comments about shooting past "normal" reasonable distances. Frankly, with a solid rest and good trigger squeeze... just about anyone can shoot to 300 at the range with pretty much any rifle. (I'm not saying we should/not saying we shouldn't) In all honesty, after 200 yards in field conditions IMO the shooter had better be having an "on" day.

    at 300 things start getting interesting and (again IMO) to shoot a critter past 300 .... can be done by the right shooter in the right situation. To guarantee killing your critter out to 600, ya gotta shoot alot. You gotta analyze your shooting and be honest about your faults and correct them.

    With a little work, either of your 300WM's are up to the task. If you're gonna "step up" for more "thump" I'd suggest the 338WM with 225 or 250 grain bullets. Pay attention to designed expansion rates at specific speeds. Personally, if I was in your shoes, I'd work loads for the 200 grain Nos AB's in your 300's and go from there. Good (or better) BC's with performance IN game that I like to see at standard or above velocity.

    My 225 grain 338WM load has 63.5 inches of drop (actual not theoretical) at 600 yards and I can't remember the 10mph theoretical drift right now cuz it's taped on the stock so I don't have to think about it. I'll be working loads for the 225 AB's this summer to see if I can flatten that out and drift a little less. Inside 400, I won't see the benefit in drop but will see a little in drift. Past 400 I'll see the bennies start to show.

    Don't plan on taking that "longer" shot, but is darn nice knowing I can. *disclaimer* after recovering from neck surgery, I'll be tickled to shoot my specs @ 200. And I'll be doing it with my new (to me) Ruger 77 in 280 Rem and my 308. Probably wait another year to warm up the 338 again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akmike30 View Post
    Looking for advise on a rifle and scope combo to shoot past the 500 yard mark. Which would be your set up and why. I thinking about getting a new rifle but I want this one to be able to reach out and drive nails around 400 to 600 yards. Must be 30 cal too. I'll be using for hunting here in Alaska.

    I own two hunting rifles 300 win mag. Dad gave me when i was 16. Then a 350 mag is what Ive used the last coule years like if alot everything I have shot dropped were it was standing. Just don't work very well pasted 175 yards. I
    The 350 remington magnum would make a fine rifle with a 225 grain accubond load. The precision of an Adjustable Objective may be a necessity at the range you've indicated. At around 400 yds. you'd have around 24-26 inches of drop (200yd zero). Taking a shot much past that will require more significant windage adjustments, but most cartridges do. A gentleman back east shot a 372 pound black bear (my mother is a black bear guide) with a 225 35 caliber accubond from a TC handgun. The bullet was estimated at 1500 fps upon impact and still put the bear down with one shot, and a complete pass-through. I believe the polymer tip promotes expansion, even at lower velocities. At 500 yds, the energy and velocity of that 350 reminton magnum would get the job done, but you're streching it if you shoot past that. To me, 400 yds is the max I care to shoot, but to each his own.

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    Thanks I was wondr what other guy s are using and why. I have an idea which cal. I will buy. Just doing some research right now before I spend a couple grand. I have a lot of shooting to do to learn. I realize this.
    Quote Originally Posted by rdklinak View Post
    I understand the want for more power, but you already having 2 300WM's has me wondering "why".

    That being said, I shoot a 308 and a 338WM. 308 with 165 partition handloads and am gonna do some testing with 180 accubonds just cuz. 338WM is spitting 225 Partitions at 2900 and when I'm on my game it'll give me sub MOA to 600 yards reliably. When I'm not on my game, it's a touch over. Both are on syn factory winch stocks that have been glass/pillar bedded and identical trigger jobs done with the pin dropping at 3 1/4 pounds.

    I'll echo the other's comments about shooting past "normal" reasonable distances. Frankly, with a solid rest and good trigger squeeze... just about anyone can shoot to 300 at the range with pretty much any rifle. (I'm not saying we should/not saying we shouldn't) In all honesty, after 200 yards in field conditions IMO the shooter had better be having an "on" day.

    at 300 things start getting interesting and (again IMO) to shoot a critter past 300 .... can be done by the right shooter in the right situation. To guarantee killing your critter out to 600, ya gotta shoot alot. You gotta analyze your shooting and be honest about your faults and correct them.

    With a little work, either of your 300WM's are up to the task. If you're gonna "step up" for more "thump" I'd suggest the 338WM with 225 or 250 grain bullets. Pay attention to designed expansion rates at specific speeds. Personally, if I was in your shoes, I'd work loads for the 200 grain Nos AB's in your 300's and go from there. Good (or better) BC's with performance IN game that I like to see at standard or above velocity.

    My 225 grain 338WM load has 63.5 inches of drop (actual not theoretical) at 600 yards and I can't remember the 10mph theoretical drift right now cuz it's taped on the stock so I don't have to think about it. I'll be working loads for the 225 AB's this summer to see if I can flatten that out and drift a little less. Inside 400, I won't see the benefit in drop but will see a little in drift. Past 400 I'll see the bennies start to show.

    Don't plan on taking that "longer" shot, but is darn nice knowing I can. *disclaimer* after recovering from neck surgery, I'll be tickled to shoot my specs @ 200. And I'll be doing it with my new (to me) Ruger 77 in 280 Rem and my 308. Probably wait another year to warm up the 338 again.
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    mainer I'll have to find some accubonds and load up sum thanks Mike. Thanks
    Do I give my friends advice? Jesus, no. They wouldn't take advice from me. Nobody should take advice from me. I haven't got a clue about anything..

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    just to add a note about Nosler Accubond bullets, since I live in "Nosler Country" and have been using them since they hit the shelf at the shooters' pro shop - When Nosler designed the Accubond the benchmark they were after was a bullet that would fly like a "ballistic tip" and perform like a "partition" - I have read and heard alot of negative feedback regarding Accubond performance on game and virtually every one was based on the presumption that Accubonds "are supposed to act like a Barnes bullet ... WRONG - If you find your Accubond performing like a Nosler Partition then it is doing what Nosler intended it to do under worst case conditions, IF you find them in a mushroomed ball on the offside hide then you made a classic boiler room shot and the bullet did what it was supposed to do under optimal conditions - As for the "ballistic tip flight performance" you will most likely never notice a difference from the partition characteristics until at or beyond 350 - 400 yards - final comment ... I have "learned" to not "badmouth" a bullet I have just out of a carcass while butchering my game animal - good shooting and hunting to all

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    I just happen to know where there is a New in the box, .300 Ultra Magnum Winchester Model 70 stainless steel with 26" barrel. There not very many every made, they were produced for one week only. $1,250.00

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    akmike30,

    I've called a few bullet manufacturers and asked the velocity that is the minimum they recommend for effective expansion in their particular bullets. The common answer has been between 1720 to 1800 fps impact at the animal. Of course, the answer will be unique to each manufacturer, cartridge, and bullet type. That being said, you can figure out what cartridge you want, then look for the rifle that fires your favored cartridge. If you purchase manufactured ammunition, you can look at their ballistics claims. If you hand-load your own and want to figure out the fps and the drop-rate, you can look at a ballistics program to help guide you. Below is the Berger Bullet website for their ballistics program...

    http://www.bergerbullets.com/Ballist...ram/index.html

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Send your 300 out to be comverted to a 340 weatherby, make sure you tell the gunsmith that you are planning on long shots.
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    I went through the same thing a few years ago. I had a good day under the money tree and decided to become proficient at shooting. The first thing I did was read this forum. The second thing I did was take everything with a grain of salt.

    I had a beater 30-06 that shot awful and wanted to step it up. Where we were hunting, there was a good chance of a long shot, say 300-400 yards. I realized I was not nearly enough of anything to expect results at that range, so I put a plan in action to change all that. Buy a weapon that will do what I want and practice. I wanted a 300 cal weapon for the ballistics and made decided on a 300 win/wsm or a 300 RUM. I went with the 300 RUM mostly for testosterone reasons at first. Now I just love it. It is overkill for sure and you really have to hand load for it and make mods to a factory gun to realize it's potential.

    I also came across a 300 win soon after buying my 300 RUM and then another, so no I also have two. One I have never shot. The other I hunted with for a season. We (the gun and I) were accurate to 300 yards consistently in field conditions and especially at the range. The 300 win has the ballistics to do what you want to 500 yards. A 180g Barnes tipped triple shock at 2800 fps will have about 1900 fps at 500 yards and should open up at that range according to Barnes.

    I also realized that to shoot long ranges (to me 500 yards is really long) you need to have good gear as well as practice. I sent my RUM in for new barrel and to get it accurized and I am working on my unshot 300 win this winter for stuff under 300 yards.

    My last rambling thoughts. It is interesting why we all pick our calibers and how it corresponds to our hunting styles. I fully admit and defend that I have a big ol' 300 ultra super duper mag because it is just that. Super duper fun and fancy to shoot. It has so much potential and helps me become a better shot because I have to work at it. Oh yea, it kills stuff. I appreciate all the words of caution, be a better hunter, know your limits, don't run with scissors. But can you have your cake and eat it too? Oh yea, buy a bunch of scope to shoot accurate to 500 yards. I like the zeiss 4.5-14 with the rapidz 800 reticle. You will spend about as much on glass as the gun. Cheap scopes suck.

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