Survivial thread on hunting forum
I'm new here and posted a hypothetical survival situation/question on the hunting forum. It deals with a deep cut while dressing a moose. I wanted to hear how real Alaskan hunters would deal with a typical scenario. The thread has been interesting.
Someone suggested that I should have posted it to this survival forum instead. But I wanted to get hunters opinions and I wanted to have hunters think about the drill in advance.
So if you're interested, you might want to check it out...
You can also see how lower 48 hunters would deal with the sitation while elk hunting here:
Threat to limb?
Should be simple for most of us:
Originally Posted by mad_angler
1. Direct pressure to control bleeding.
2. Evacuate the victim if there is, or might be a threat to the limb.
If there is a threat to limb, or a possible threat to limb (as described in the Hunting forum), I hope the discussion in my camp focuses on first aid, then the quickest way out unless we're confident it's not required. Keeping our heads and working together could prove the most important variable after all.
The Leadership Challenges on the BWCA website make for some interesting discussions, if that's where you found this hypothetical "survival" situation. I didnt' find this one, but in the BWCA challenge scenarios I looked at, (Challenge #3: Broken Ankle, and Challenge #7: Soloist–Bear Attack, http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseac...D=235&confID=1), the injuries were serious and air evacuation appeared the only answer too. The best comments focused on priorities and methods.
Not sure what's meant by "real Alaskan hunters" or "typical scenario", but the scenario presented describes a "deep cut...not spurting". I did read some of the responses to your post in the hunting forum, but ideas like suturing or doing much more than first aid in the field seems more limited than maybe most of us realize. I picked up a copy of that text, Wilderness Medicine that's sometimes mentioned on here awhile back. It seems like knowing for sure what kind of injury you have isn't always simple.
Assessment in the wilderness: of "significant extremity vascular injury..." (Wilderness Medicine, 4th ed, Paul Auerbach, MD, Professor of Surgery, Stanford), the clues that a deep cut involves an artery are considered in 2 groups, "hard signs" and "soft signs". Pulsatile bleeding is a hard sign indicating the victim should be evacuated emergently, but the absence of pulsatile bleeding may not mean arteries are intact. In discussing the "soft signs" (including "diminished but palpable pulses"), the 2 surgeons who wrote this chapter advise high clinical suspicion and interpreting the signs "with great caution in the wilderness". Window of opportunity: How long do we have? If there is uncertainty about threat to limb, then how long might we have until the hunter suffers permanent damage? No doubt there are a ton of variables here, but the goal in the WM text is 6 hours. Where Alaska can be critically different in my limited experience, is in the remoteness, especially the need for air transport - sometimes a long way. The challenges we have to consider in remote locations might include wound complications (vascular disruption, infection), and transport logistics including weather delays, along with the lack of on-site surgeon- usually. Against these sorts of uncertainty/variables and potential time constraints, I'd be cautious.
Learning simple stuff and having simple goals in the field makes sense to me. Most injuries that will be OK will be easy to recognize. Performing timely first aid, then evacuating if there's any possibility of threat to limb seems the best rule of thumb. Keeping our heads and a sense of perspective, then working together on the priorities and methods could prove the most important variable after all. Good thread for discussion.
ill tell you whatd id do............DUCT TAPE! Dont leave home without it!
2 years ago we were in the feild, 1 mile from the trail and wheeler, and my buddy drops a really heavy bodied bull. so we got work to do now. just 2 guys, no pack (at the wheeler), and our knives. buddy starts by makin a downward cut and stabs himself directly in the thigh thru a pair of jeans with a 3.5" drop point skinner good clean cut about 1.5" deep. he cleans it up best he can with a sweaty t-shirt, covers it with mud until it stopped bleeding, and says, okay lets get back to work. next day at his home we're packaging the meat and he cuts the tip of his index finger off with the same knife..........I carry a very effective first aid kit (duct tape included) now cuz if he would have nicked his artery he'd have been done for. couldnt have been far off.
Release Lake Trout
U.S Army Field Manual 3-05.70: Maggots could be good...I guess.
Buck Nelson posted some interesting information in another thread (http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...481#post874481). One of the reference articles took information apparently from a US Army Field Manual...containing some additional considerations about wounds in the field. The source recommends good first aid techniques and some caution about closing deep wounds in the field. Then it got interesting:
4-97. If you do not have antibiotics and the wound has become severely infected, does not heal, and ordinary debridement is impossible, consider maggot therapy as stated below, despite its hazards:
- Expose the wound to flies for one day and then cover it.
- Check daily for maggots.
- Once maggots develop, keep wound covered but check daily.
- Remove all maggots when they have cleaned out all dead tissue and before they start on healthy tissue. Increased pain and bright red blood in the wound indicate that the maggots have reached healthy tissue.
- Flush the wound repeatedly with sterile water or fresh urine to remove the maggots.
- Check the wound every 4 hours for several days to ensure all maggots have been removed.
- Bandage the wound and treat it as any other wound. It should heal normally
Whether this is an actual USArmy field manual, I couldn't say, but some of the other advice ("Expedient Water Crossings" for instance) seems like good information to me.