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Thread: Recoil again

  1. #1

    Default Recoil again

    I have never been shy of recoil and have often mentioned on this forum that I can shoot most anything. Some of the big guns that I have shot are 458 Win mag, 458 Lott, 416 Rigby to name a few. To me a certain straight stocked Ruger in 338 mag kicked worse than any of the afore mentioned but was still manageable.

    Well guys.....I just met my match. A while back I picked up a Howa in 375 Ruger. It's a light little rascal with a straight Hogue stock/20 inch barrel and is kinda cute. I'm here to tell you that either I ain't the man I once was or ain't the man I thought I was....something.

    If any of you have ever shot a TC Renegade with a heavy conical you know what cheek slap is. Well take that times ten and you know what the Howa 375 is about. It found it's way to the shelf at the gunshop on the way home from the range. If I want to mix that kind of punishment into my shooting I'll just go shoot my 308 a bunch and then stop by the bar on the way home and pick a fight with the biggest baddest dude there! Sheesh!

  2. #2

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    Ugh. You struck home with the Renegade comparison.

    The 375 H&H I usually carry has a fairly light 22" barrel, open sights, and tips the scale right at 7# when empty. It's a treat to carry, but I won't shoot it from a standard benchrest without a 25# bag of shot between me and the butt. It's not bad from a standing benchrest, but I'm not getting any cheek slap due to stock configuration. I do get a brief touch of double vision after firing three fast offhand shots with 300 grain bullets, though. Good move in dumping the Howa.

    Stock fit may be the biggest culprit in recoil problems, along with poor benchrest techniques. The absolute worst kicking gun I've ever owned or fired was a 30-06, believe it or not. It was an older Remington 760 carbine (18 1.2" barrel) with a skinny stock someone had shortened an inch. Man. We were shooting a lot of 220 grain bullets then for very close fast deer hunting in tight cover, and there was just no way at all I could tame that little beast. I traded it to a buddy who was a foot shorter than my 6'4" and 100 pounds heavier than my 220#, and he still thinks it's the best rifle ever made. Go figure!

  3. #3
    Member e45colt's Avatar
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    Second stock fit. I have to get every rifle cut down because I'm short and with the too-long length of pull they hurt. I also have Pachmayr decelerator pads installed and what a difference!
    Afflicted by condition human

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    Stock fit and caliber. Some rifles like the .378 Weatherby are known for vicious kick even in the same stock as other calibers. Large cases necked down like the .378 seem to kick more viciously than the larger calibers on the same case. Quickly accelerating a heavy bullet and a lot of powder gases to to high velocity just produces a lot of hurt. Larger and heavier caliber like the .460 seem to have more of a push than a sharp jab like the .378.
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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    My 358 Norma Mag was a M-70 with a MPI stock. It did not seem to kick near as bad as my buddy's 338 Win Mag M-700 fancy grade. It is all stock design. I always thought that M-94 30-30 carbines kicked a lot worse than they should, considering the power of the cartridge...

    By the way, while I have been shooting heavy recoilers on a regular basis since Nixon was the president,,, I recently found my right eye going out of focus after firing 30-40 rounds of various magnums in one sitting... It seems the constant striking of the stock against the lower orbit of my eye has finally done some weird things to whatever makes it focus.
    I just spent big bucks going to Anchorage to have a eye Doc look at it,,, but he is obviously a non-shooting city boy from someplace else... So he was pretty clueless, thinking that it must be my age that suddenly made everything go whacky after every shot...
    So word to the wise,,,, just because your shoulder can take all that slamming, does not mean your eyes can take it forever.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    My 358 Norma Mag was a M-70 with a MPI stock. It did not seem to kick near as bad as my buddy's 338 Win Mag M-700 fancy grade. It is all stock design. I always thought that M-94 30-30 carbines kicked a lot worse than they should, considering the power of the cartridge...

    By the way, while I have been shooting heavy recoilers on a regular basis since Nixon was the president,,, I recently found my right eye going out of focus after firing 30-40 rounds of various magnums in one sitting... It seems the constant striking of the stock against the lower orbit of my eye has finally done some weird things to whatever makes it focus.
    I just spent big bucks going to Anchorage to have a eye Doc look at it,,, but he is obviously a non-shooting city boy from someplace else... So he was pretty clueless, thinking that it must be my age that suddenly made everything go whacky after every shot...
    So word to the wise,,,, just because your shoulder can take all that slamming, does not mean your eyes can take it forever.
    A friend of mine was firing his 458 Watts at the range standing, on the 5th round he couldn't see through the scope. It had detached his retina; NOPE the scope never touched his face ! It was reattached and after 6 months NO SHOOTING he can now shoot lighter rifles.That's been 8 years ago.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    A friend of mine was firing his 458 Watts at the range standing, on the 5th round he couldn't see through the scope. It had detached his retina; NOPE the scope never touched his face ! It was reattached and after 6 months NO SHOOTING he can now shoot lighter rifles.That's been 8 years ago.
    Egad. Maybe it's time to retire that sweet, light 375.

  8. #8

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    His doctor said it was the rapid transfer of motion from complete stop to extreme acceleration, that caused the damage. Kind of like your head is still and George Foreman Sr. punches you in the eye the acceleration causes the damage, not nessacarily the blow. Shades of "Sugar Ray Lenard".
    The problem is everybody has a different acceleration threshold, and as your eyes age they become less forgiving.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Plus I am sure it is accumulative damage. I have been around a few big explosions & muzzle blasts, plus I had a grenade go off pretty close to my head on one occasion. (thank God for Kevlar) Not to mention having my nose and jaw busted a few times.
    During this last episode my eye was all blood shot for a week or two. But it took almost a month to get a darn Doc appointment, so it did not look to bad when I finally saw the guy.
    Yesterday I tried shooting a 30-06 lightweight titanium rifle with 200 grain bullets loaded to almost 2,700 fps.
    Only 24 rounds but... Today my right eye is tender and a touch blurry. I could swear that the muzzle blast from the guy next to me was also bothering it some...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Member fnsakdel's Avatar
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    Again http://www.bp-tec.com/recoil.htm
    works for me Del

  11. #11
    Member NDTerminator's Avatar
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    I hear you on the Ruger. Every Ruger M77 or Model 1 I ever shot delivered more felt recoil than the caliber should have. I have no doubt it has to do with their straight stock and my high cheekbones. I have a couple other bones to pick with Ruger rifles, so I gave up on them. Too bad, as they sure do make a pretty rifle...

    Had a 58. cal LH TC Renegade too. Emphasis on had. You are not kidding about getting slapped by that puppy. Have a Triumph now and the difference is night & day.

    I'm not particularly recoil sensitive and had a propensity to fiddle with some big boomers for what we do down here, up until a couple years ago when I was advised in no uncertain terms to cut it out by a medical specialist type doc (my issue was aggravating nerve damage in my spine, Float's eye issue is much more serious, IMO). I sold all my big stuff but my 338 Mag which has a Gentry Quiet Brake on it. Amazing device, turns 338 Mag recoil into a bit less than a 270 and the muzzle blast is no worse than it was before I braked it. No way in hades I was going to quit shooting 12 gauge mags though (I go through upwards of 1K a year of 3" & 3.5" steel), but 12 gauges more push than jab like a rifle...

    I have an H-S Precision stock with a mercury recoil reducer built in (I bought it used, the prior owner had it added as an option when he ordered the stock). When I was the sniper for our regional team I used my own LH 700 308 HB action in that stock. You didn't notice it very much shot to shot, but I can advise that after a day's training of a hundred rounds or so, I wasn't at all as fatigued as when I used the factory stock. Nowdays I have a LH 700 in 22-250 with a 24" sporter barrel mated with that stock, and it is more like shooting a 204 than a 250, the crosshairs don't even come off the target...

  12. #12
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    Default Eye damage

    Since the retina is so small and light weight and helding in place in the eye pretty firmly I have to wonder if the eye damage isn't more of a factor of the stock slapping the cheek. Seems like all accounts of retina damage I have heard of were with the right eye; recoil should affect both eyes pretty much the same if recoil were the only factor.

    Perhaps we need a recoil pad on the cheekpiece also to protect our head and eyes esp. on light rifles with a lot of muzzle flip. Since the apparent purpose of the cheek piece is to position the head a soft cheek piece could probably be used. I guess one needs to also consider the eye relief on the scope - does the cheek piece also tend to push the head back away from the recoiling scope?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    I've had problems with my shooting eye - right eye, right handed - over the years and it would interfere with my sporting clays competition - on a big shoot it would not be uncommon to shoot 1000 or more rounds in 3 to 4 days and I would do that about twice a month with less shooting in between. After first day I would have real fits sometimes keeping focus - went to a cpl eye doc's and best conclusion was swelling of the tear ducts and surrounding tissue putting pressure on the nerves around / behind the eye. I have always fought sinus issues and weather and allergies did the same. Doc said as we age and gain fat it accumulates everywhere including facial area's putting pressure on stuff... So, get younger and skinnier and I bet it will help!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    EKC:
    You're talkin about "Cheek Slap", so I'm just curious if you hafta press your cheek hard into the stock to see the sights. If so, maybe there isn't enough Drop in the butt.

    Also, is your scope mounted high or low?

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    Member BrettAKSCI's Avatar
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    I'm hear to tell you the .375 Ruger isn't all that. Stock fit however is all that and more! I've shot a .30-06 and a 9.3mm that fit sooooo poorly it was all I could do to get my cheak down low enough to align the sights. The recoil causing the comb to smack me in the face was rather unpleasant even in comparison to some of the larger .600NE and 4 bores I've shot. The big ones may make you punch drunk, but at least they don't hit you in the face!

    Brett

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    Very, very few people know how to make a gunstock anymore. Some custom stockers, and Butch Searcy do. Certainly not stock companies. Not any of the large manufacturers, except for shotgun stocks. This is because serious shotgunners know what is necessary for a shotgun stock to be comfortable. Rifle shooters are a dense, silly breed who are easily swayed by hacks like O'Conner and his ilk.

    I have a blueprint of a 1903 Springfield stock designed by the great Townsend. I also have Alvin Linden's complete stocking series of articles and booklets. Today's rifle shooter wouldn't know what to make of these works.
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  17. #17

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    I seem to recall that OConnor was especially proud of several Linden stocked rifles he owned.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Adam Barringer View Post
    I'm hear to tell you the .375 Ruger isn't all that. Stock fit however is all that and more! I've shot a .30-06 and a 9.3mm that fit sooooo poorly it was all I could do to get my cheak down low enough to align the sights. The recoil causing the comb to smack me in the face was rather unpleasant even in comparison to some of the larger .600NE and 4 bores I've shot. The big ones may make you punch drunk, but at least they don't hit you in the face!

    Brett
    I agree! I may do a 375 Ruger again....in a different gun.

    Yup Smitty, the stock is straight and the scope is low mounted. I want my scope as close to the line of bore as possible....I know it's a quirk, a 35 year old quirk! I did have to press my cheek pretty tight to the stock. That was two days ago and my cheek bone is still sore to touch.

    My 308 Winchester Extreme Weather also has a straight stock and a low mounted scope. It also has a whole lot less powder pushing a whole lot less bullet and is not a problem. This set up is what I'm used to and when shouldered everything comes together well. I acquire a sight picture instantly and that means the world.

    I will have to opt away from that style of fit if I want to shoot a big thumper. The 458 Lott was a ***** cat compared to what I felt with the 375 Ruger. The Lott was a CZ with a lot more drop in the stock. I'm sure that Lott wearing the same stock as the 375 Ruger would have been an even bigger wack up side the head.

    Maybe I'll just stick with my lever guns for beeg stuff and get a little closer! My 45-70 Guide Gun is fine as far as recoil is concerned!

  19. #19

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    EKC,

    At one point I had seriously considered the 375 Ruger and I looked into the Howa...never got it. If you own the rifle now and want to do a stock swap, look at the Axiom stock being sold by Blackhawk. http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Axi...ck,220,166.htm It isn't traditional looking or even attractive, but if their advertisement is to be believed, it will take up to 90% of the recoil away. Maybe this would help.

    AJ

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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the Hogue stocks are rubber overmolded. The rubber will "grab" at you and not slide past your skin like wood or cheap plastic. Don't care for the rubber at all.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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