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Thread: 270 gr Fail Safe in 375 Winchester?

  1. #1

    Default 270 gr Fail Safe in 375 Winchester?

    I was having little luck getting my wild boar hunt put together, then Jr took the bull by the horns and got us a hunt booked for this spring.
    I plan to use my Marlin 375 with some 265 gr Beartooths that came my way courtesy of e45colt. My son is going to be using my T.C Encore also in 375 Win.. I have come to find out that the Marlin is fussy about what cast boolit it likes. It really favors those big hard Beartooths and since they are in short supply and kinda hard to come by I ain't sharing them with my son. I do have a box of 270 grain Fail Safe bullets that were given to me because they don't hold together well at H&H velocities.

    Have any of you guys shot the big pointy 375s in the 375 Winchester/Encore combination? Is there any reason not to give it a try? Any load recomendations?

    Thanks EKC

  2. #2

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    Well don't everyone speak up all at once! Just kidding....was kind of an off the wall question. However the next time someone asks I'll be able to answer cuz I'm fixen to load some of those 270 grain Fail Safe bullets up and see what happens!

  3. #3

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    Never done it but I sure as heck would if I were going to shoot an Encore. The action is strong enough for a belted magnum and this wouldn't be much of a test of its metal.
    The spitzer bullets will be longer and may not stabilize well, but that will be determined by the rifle and rifling. just don't seat the bullets out into the rifling and you should have a real hog thumper. The Fail Safe will hold together at 375 WIN. velocities you just probably won't recover the projectile unless you make a Texas heart shot.
    Best of luck with your ammo and hunt.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Elmerkeithclone,

    Your Marlin likely needs to be fire lapped. I had the same issue, and after much frustration and reading, I finally found a thread on the Marlin forums that explained the issue in a way that actually made sense, and turned out to be true.

    Often times on the Marlins the process that is used to cut in the dove tails for the sights and the forearm hangar puts a very slight constriction in the barrel bore. It is not so noticeable that you can see it by eye, however if you slug the barrel you can feel it. For whatever reason this doesn’t seem to appreciably affect accuracy with jacketed bullets, but with cast bullets it really has a negative effect…. The micro-groove rifle barrels seem to be more prone to this than the more recent models, at least in my experience.

    Also, try the Barnes Original 255 gr bullets. They seem to shoot great out of both my 375Winchesters. Make sure you get the ones for 375 W and not the 38-55. different jacket thickness, and diameter as well.

    To your original question. I have shot a few 270 gr Hornady rn bullets thru my BB94 in 375 Winchester in single shot mode (no way on earth they would feed normally) and they did fine… never tried them out of my 375 marlin though.

    I have no experience with the Encore’s but for plinking I would say go for it, but for real hunting… I think I would stick to the Barnes Original or the Hornady 220 gr. They are both designed specifically for the 375 Winchester and perform as intended.

    That E-45Colt is a hellova good guy aint he!
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    I was looking into bullets for a 375 win load project as well. My understanding was that it shoots so slow, the bullets need to expand sooner aka have thinner jackets. I figured I would be pushing the 255g barnes original at about 1800 fps at the muzzle and keep game to 100 yards or so. I wonder if more traditional 375 bullets for would open up at such slow speeds. For instance, nosler bullets open up at to a minimum of 1800 fps according to their web sight. Barnes is about the same I think. Of course I need to use the flat nose for the magazine in a lever action.

    I found a good bullet web sight from a link on this forum lately. They have bullets for the 375 win, might give them a try? www.hawkbullets.com.

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    of course "slow" is relitive. Daved you can push those Barnes Originals to just under 2000 fps with 33.0 gr of Reloader #7, WLR primer and a COL of 2.56 in the 375 Winchester. Compair that to the same bullet fired from a 38-55 and I think you will max out around 1,600 fps with an apropriate powder charge for that application.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    EKC & Alangaq:

    You guys are some of the good'ens. Both of you have have given generously of your friendship, your time, your resources. I am grateful and thank you both. Alangaq give me a call, I have some fuel for your Mosin(like a lot).
    EKC you got some of those BTB's headed your way tomorrow.
    Afflicted by condition human

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    The 375 Win Encore isn't limited to the same overall Length restraints as are lever guns. It also isn't limited to the same pressure restraints as the lever guns. The 375 Win uses a high pressure brass, not so of the 38-55. So in all fairness to the rifle and shooter a little experimentation could produce a very good and lethal combo.
    Plus the Fail-Safe bullets would have a much better long range BC and retained velocity combined with the higher launch speed.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Brav01 I agree about the length and long range BC, but not about higher launch speed. In my experience the 375w case just doesn’t have enough case capacity to send any bullet over about 250 grains much beyond 2,000fps without exceeding the pressure limit. At least not with any of the powders that are traditionally listed for this cartridge. For those 270gr fail safe bullets, I think I would start with maybe 28-29 grains of Reloader #7 with a WLR primer and see how they do in that Encore. Assuming a 20” barrel, I would probably call it good when I got in the 1900fps range or when pressure signs became apparent.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e45colt View Post
    EKC & Alangaq:

    You guys are some of the good'ens. Both of you have have given generously of your friendship, your time, your resources. I am grateful and thank you both. Alangaq give me a call, I have some fuel for your Mosin(like a lot).
    EKC you got some of those BTB's headed your way tomorrow.
    No, no, thank YOU! Will give you a call soonest, but got a house full of sickies at the moment....
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Quote Originally Posted by e45colt View Post
    EKC & Alangaq:

    You guys are some of the good'ens. Both of you have have given generously of your friendship, your time, your resources. I am grateful and thank you both. Alangaq give me a call, I have some fuel for your Mosin(like a lot).
    EKC you got some of those BTB's headed your way tomorrow.
    Man! This sight has been a blessing! E45colt does this mean I have to let the kid shoot up some of my GOOD bullets in the Encore? I'll be more than glad to pay you for them and the shipping. I just really appreciate you making them available. You once told me how long it sometimes takes to get a batch of Bearthooth bullets and you weren't kidding! There is a fella in NC that makes some of the best boolits I've ever shot in my 30-30 and 25-20. I'm going to try to figure out what mold these Beartooth Bullets are out of and buy that mold and a bunch of gas checks and send them to NC and hire old Bill to make up a bunch. Those 265 grain Beartooths are the only cast projectile that my Marlin likes when driven fast enough to kill something as ornery as a wild boar. The Encore on the other hand isn't nearly as fussy.

    Alangaq: Brownell has a kit called the "Final Finish System" it's made buy Superior Shooting Systems. When you buy this kit you get 10 bullets total, 2ea in 5 different grits to progressively smooth and poish the bore. The onliest problem is they are only offered( in Brownells catalogue anyway) in 224-308. These bullets are very long for caliber so there is a lot of bearing surface and thus more polishing per trigger pull.

    Can I wander a bit here? Gonna anyway! Two years ago a young preacher moved to town and showed a lot of merit and good character. He expressed to me that he always wanted to take up bow hunting but didn't have a clue where to start. It just so happened that I had a real nice Bow Tech bow that was all set up with a minimum draw length of about 2 inches longer than my arms reached. I had a dozen arrows made up and gave him the bow/arrows and one of my block targets. With in a month he was shooting better than I ever could. So that fall I took him to my lease to hunt deer(nobody but my son and I hunt my lease period) however I had a good feeling about this young preacher. Low and behold he killed a nice 8 pointer. Since he didn't have a whole lot of extra cash I did a European mount for him and cut and packaged his deer. This fall he killed a real nice 10 pointer... again on my lease. He is one of those guys that shows such appreciation for everything done for him. Well last week I came home one evening and was stunned. I had no idear that this young preacher was a finished cabinet builder by trade. There sitting in my living room was an absolutely beautiful 12 gun hard maple gun cabinet. My son was in Ka-hoots on the project as well as far as knowing what my dream cabinet would consist of. He built the cabinet so that it would fit in the corner of the of living room. It is three sided on the front with glass panels on both sides of the door. It has recessed lights in the top and the actual rack that holds the guns is on a turntable(lazy suzan style) in the middle of the cabinet. There are hand beveled doors on the storage compartment under the actual gun cabinet itself. I gotta tell ya guys I got teary eyed a bit thinking that I had made enough of an impression on the new hunter to warrant the hours that he generously donated to a project of this magnitude. It kind of makes the old guy in me apparent as well as I have the turn table turned so that my lever guns are all up front! My wife says there is something wrong with me when I can turn the tv off and turn the light on in the cabinet and just sit there and stare at it! I knew you guys would understand that thinking though!

    I just put a call in to Brownells' techs seeing if those polishing bullets were offered in 375 and just not stock in their catalogue. I told them to see if they could find out and get back to me asap and if they can't figure it out then I know Larry Potterfield can! I bet they call me in the next hour...besides Pete Brownell likes me! Ha!

    I'll take some pictures of the cabinet and post them.....everytime I put pictures on here I have to reeducated myself on the process!

  12. #12

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    Sounds like you made a lifelong friend and got a gun cabinet to boot.
    That's what is required to keep the hunting areas open and the woods full of animals, new hunters. The sheer numbers of hunters and gun owners help keep our hunting and gun rights. Mentoring young hunters should be a high on all outdoorsmens priorities.
    Good on you !
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    What goes around comes around EKC - you have shared generosity with many, me included, and it seems to be a well deserved and fitting repayment!
    Several years ago I sold a beautiful Amish made walnut 12 gun cabinet - bought a safe and while it protects the guns I miss my "quality time" sitting and admiring my toys....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    EKC,

    No… the fire lapping kit that I am talking about is not the “final finish system”. I think that is Dave Tubbs kit with the preimpregnated jacketed bullets. The one I used does not come with the bullets (you have to supply those) all it has is three little tubs of abrasive grit and two steel plates. You goop some abrasive grit onto the steel plates and then roll a lead (I used lead because it holds more grit) bullet back and forth to imbed the abrasive into it. Then you simply load them as you would any other bullet but with a reduced charge. http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm I think that link will give you some good info. Cant remember were I bought my kit, but it was either Brownell’s or Midway USA.

    Nice job with the preacher! And the gun case sounds really nice!
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    EKC,

    No… the fire lapping kit that I am talking about is not the “final finish system”. I think that is Dave Tubbs kit with the preimpregnated jacketed bullets. The one I used does not come with the bullets (you have to supply those) all it has is three little tubs of abrasive grit and two steel plates. You goop some abrasive grit onto the steel plates and then roll a lead (I used lead because it holds more grit) bullet back and forth to imbed the abrasive into it. Then you simply load them as you would any other bullet but with a reduced charge. http://www.neconos.com/details2.htm I think that link will give you some good info. Cant remember were I bought my kit, but it was either Brownell’s or Midway USA.

    Nice job with the preacher! And the gun case sounds really nice!
    Brownells said the system they sell wasn't available in 375 anyway. Thanks for the link! I'll give Midway a try in the morning and if that doesn't work I'll try to contact NECO factory direct!

    thanks again EKC

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Oh... one more thing. when you load those fire lapping rounds mark the cartridge cases with a shapie like "A, B, C, D" or "1, 2, 3," etc. so that you dont get the different rounds with different grit mixed up. Once loaded you really cant tell the difference between course and fine....and the abrasives are all the same gray color. I put mine in seperate plastic ammo cases with a paper note. Of course when I opened them up at the range the notes blew off the table and onto the range... not good. but since I had marked the cases I wasnt hosed.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    I used the tubs final finish rounds in two guns. One a 300 RUM, it really helped the fouling but not much change in accuracy. The next a 300 win. I measured the throat before and after the session with the win and was amazed to find a huge difference in the max COL to the lands. It was two years ago and I don't have the exact numbers, sorry. Be careful. I chose to just not use them anymore. I have a box of the bullets unloaded that I would be willing to give you if you are anywhere near Anchorage. They sound like just the ticket for your scenario.

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    oops, mine are in .308, of course you need .375. Anyhow, if anybody wants them send me a message.

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