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Thread: Can you effectively crimp a bullet that has no available crimping groove?

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default Can you effectively crimp a bullet that has no available crimping groove?

    I've always wondered this. Some rifles have a bit more throat, and a bit more length in the magazine which would allow you to seat the bullet out a bit more than where you oftentimes find the crimping groove. Is there a specific die that does a better job than others for crimping without a crimping groove? I'm not too impressed with some of the taper-crimp built into most dies.

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    As long as you're talking taper crimp in those dies rather than roll crimp ala RCBS standard, you should be able to put in a little, but you have to really watch for shoulder or neck bulging if you go too far. I don't bother crimping for bolt rifles other than big boomers down to 375 H&H. Never felt the need for it with 338 Winnie or 358 Norma.

    If you really want to do it right, why not get a cannelure tool from Corbin and roll in a new cannelure exactly where you want it? I've used one of their tools for years and really like it. Trouble is, I loaned it to a guy who split the sheets and moved out of state, and far as I or his ex can tell, took it with him. From the reports I hear from mutual friends, I was lucky in only losing one piece of gear.

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    I wonder if a tubing cutter would work..........?????????

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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    You can also increase neck tension by reducing the diameter of the expander ball 1 or 2 thousandths. Works real well on the 50BMG I load for the Ma-Duce.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Using the Lee Factory Crimp Die, you can crimp anywhere on a bullet without crushing the case. You can crimp bullets with no cannelure at all, if you care to.

    Ted

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    Member HCL's Avatar
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    lee factory crimp die will crimp anywhere you want and does a might fine job.

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    I agree with the previous posts that the Lee Factory Crimp Die is an excellent tool for crimping ammo. I own several of them (6.5x55, 300 WM, 358 Win, 375 H&H, 416 RM, 45/70--probably a few others I can't think of right now) and have found they work extremely well when a crimp is needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    Is there a specific die that does a better job than others for crimping without a crimping groove?
    Yup, Lee Factory Crimp, I never load for M1 Grand without it.
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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    I was always considering the Lee factory crimp dies, I'll have to give them a shot. Thanks.

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    Member e45colt's Avatar
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    I tried one Lee Factory Crimp Die, now have one for every rifle caliber I own. For $30 they will make a custom one for you, just send them a dummy cartridge.
    Afflicted by condition human

  11. #11

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    I tried the Lee die when it first came out, and when applied without a cannelure it wasn't strong enough for heavy recoil, whether stout 45-70 loads in light levers, or the bottom round in bolt mags for 375 and bigger. Drive the bullet back into the case when pressures were high in the first place, and bad things happen. Have they improved the design? Or put another way, was my technique off and has anyone else found a way to make it work when recoil brings tears to your eyes?

    That's why I went back to rolling my own with the cannelure tool. BTW- C&H used to make a cannelure tool too, but I haven't seen them for sale in about 20 years. Anyone run across them any more? I need to replace my Corbin, and would love to spend a little less.

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    Member HCL's Avatar
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    Bullet Cannelure Tool, pretty resonable price.
    http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5515.html

    The redding profile crimp die roll/taper works pretty well also, same concept as the lee but a bit more pricy.

  13. #13

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    Man, that is cheap. I paid more for mine 25 years ago.

    Gotta say though, that I'd only order it by phone. In my experience Buffalo has a nasty history with backorders.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I tried the Lee die when it first came out, and when applied without a cannelure it wasn't strong enough for heavy recoil, whether stout 45-70 loads in light levers, or the bottom round in bolt mags for 375 and bigger. Drive the bullet back into the case when pressures were high in the first place, and bad things happen. Have they improved the design? Or put another way, was my technique off and has anyone else found a way to make it work when recoil brings tears to your eyes?

    That's why I went back to rolling my own with the cannelure tool. BTW- C&H used to make a cannelure tool too, but I haven't seen them for sale in about 20 years. Anyone run across them any more? I need to replace my Corbin, and would love to spend a little less.
    The only round I used it with was a 35 whelen ackley. Actually I used a 358 win factory crimp die and fashioned a spacer to use it with the ackley. I didn't have any problems with bullet setback, but the whelen isn't that powerful of a round. I did note that when I pulled the 250 gr a-frames I had loaded (I re-chambered the gun to 350 rigby) that the a-frames had a canalure swaged into place on the bullets.

    You can adjust how much the die crimps the brass based on how the die is adjusted in the press.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    I did note that when I pulled the 250 gr a-frames I had loaded (I re-chambered the gun to 350 rigby) that the a-frames had a canalure swaged into place on the bullets.
    Now that's interesting, and potentially very good news for heavy recoil! My "carry" 375 only weighs 7 pounds empty, and by the time you get to round #3, a bullet without a cannelure is pounded down close to a quarter inch further into the case. Stop after firing #2 and reload, then shoot twice more, and it's passing the orgive. Did I mention that rifle romps pretty good?

  16. #16

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    I wouldn't suggest a tubing cutter as the bullets you are talking about are for large game and the jacket integrity could be damaged, causing bullet faiure; unless they are monolithic. If you could find a knurling wheel the right size at a machine shop,you could very likely use the tubing cutter frame and roll your own.
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    One good thing to know, is that the regular Lee FC die works with the improved versions of the same cartridge. I use my 375 FC die to crimp 375 (not 378) Wby loads. A BRNO ZKK602 I had rechambered by Bevan King, it holds five in the magzine.

    With the 300 gr Nosler Partition loaded to fit the magazine, it is seated and crimped .150" behind the cannelure. This bullet gets right at 2800 fps. Lots of bashed up bullet noses, especially the ones on the bottom, but never had any problem with them slipping under recoil. In fact, that was my reason for buying the die, because they were slipping before being crimped.

    Ted

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner Ted View Post
    One good thing to know, is that the regular Lee FC die works with the improved versions of the same cartridge. I use my 375 FC die to crimp 375 (not 378) Wby loads. A BRNO ZKK602 I had rechambered by Bevan King, it holds five in the magzine.

    With the 300 gr Nosler Partition loaded to fit the magazine, it is seated and crimped .150" behind the cannelure. This bullet gets right at 2800 fps. Lots of bashed up bullet noses, especially the ones on the bottom, but never had any problem with them slipping under recoil. In fact, that was my reason for buying the die, because they were slipping before being crimped.

    Ted
    Cool, YT. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I tried the Lee die when it first came out, and when applied without a cannelure it wasn't strong enough for heavy recoil, whether stout 45-70 loads in light levers, or the bottom round in bolt mags for 375 and bigger. Drive the bullet back into the case when pressures were high in the first place, and bad things happen. Have they improved the design? Or put another way, was my technique off and has anyone else found a way to make it work when recoil brings tears to your eyes?
    I don't know if you were using bad technique or not, but I've been using the Lee FC die in 45/70, 375 H&H and 416 RM for many years with nary a problem. My 45/70 is a 1895 SS with a 17 inch barrel and it weighs right at 6.5 pounds. I don't recall pulling a loaded round after it having been crimped into place so I can't say what the outcome to the bullet was from the Lee die. I can say that I've not experienced a measurable decrease in accuracy using crimped ammo in my hunting rifles with the Lee FC die.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  20. #20

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    Truth be known, I was using several pre-production prototypes and wasn't impressed. I told them so too, so obviously they listened to me and whoever else was testing. Come to think of it, I've never heard from them again, so you can be sure they heard me!

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