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Thread: Chartering / Transporting

  1. #1
    Member ACBMAN's Avatar
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    Default Chartering / Transporting

    My understanding is a charter boat can not be used for personal fishing, is a transporter restricted from personal use also? Thanks for any input.

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    It's legal to use a charter boat for personal use,I do it all the time, we can fish for Halibut or any fish, for ourselves while chartering.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I'm fairly certain that transporters can also use their boat for personal use. I've never heard of any such restriction on either charters or transporters.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain T View Post
    It's legal to use a charter boat for personal use,I do it all the time, we can fish for Halibut or any fish, for ourselves while chartering.
    There is absolutely nothing saying a charter boat can't be used for personal fishing. I do it all the time.
    Year round saltwater fishing adventures in Homer, AK.
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    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
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    Oh yes there are some new rules for this year that everyone should be ready for, since enforcement will be way up this year.........http://alaskafisheries.noaa.gov/sust...harter/faq.pdf

    7. I am a licensed guide; do I need a CHP onboard to take friends, family, or neighbors fishing even if they are not paying me?

    Yes. As a licensed guide you would need a CHP if you are onboard the vessel with anglers onboard catching and retaining halibut. In this program, all anglers that use the services of a charter vessel guide, whether they are paying or non-paying, are considered charter vessel anglers. Each angler does not have to individually compensate the person providing sport fishing assistance for this definition to be applicable. Compensation is also not strictly limited to a monetary exchange and can include a trade of goods or services in exchange for taking someone fishing. In addition, any person receiving compensation (whether or not they hold an annual sport guide license issued by ADF&G), would be considered a charter vessel guide and need a CHP for assisting a person who is catching and retaining halibut in Area 2C or 3A. In this case, the person sport fishing would be considered a charter vessel angler, and the trip would be considered a charter vessel fishing trip. (See Glossary for definitions)
    The only exception is for holders of Subsistence Halibut Regulation Certificates (SHARC). The owner of a vessel that is registered with the State of Alaska as a charter vessel may use that vessel to harvest subsistence halibut provided the owner has a valid SHARC. Only the vessel owner and members of the vessel owner’s immediate family may be onboard the vessel while subsistence halibut fishing. Only the vessel owner and members of the vessel owner’s immediate family who hold a valid SHARC may fish for subsistence halibut from the charter vessel. (50 CFR 300.66(i))
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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Wow Capt, thanks for the info there,

    Is it possible that referrence in the end concerning Subsistence fishing with those not in your family on board,
    is directed toward those Subsistence fishing on Charter vessels?

    or is that interpreted as toward ALL Subsistence Halibut fishing. "Only immediate family members on board...." ??

    Bummer, that was a fun thing to do with friends.

    Can you imagine the boarding officer now having to ask if your kids have Identification,
    to prove that they are in fact your kids and
    TO BE SURE, that none of your kids friends are along for a day on the water, for fun, ILLEGAL ??
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    Oh yes there are some new rules for this year that everyone should be ready for, since enforcement will be way up this year.........http://alaskafisheries.noaa.gov/sust...harter/faq.pdf

    7. I am a licensed guide; do I need a CHP onboard to take friends, family, or neighbors fishing even if they are not paying me?

    Yes. As a licensed guide you would need a CHP if you are onboard the vessel with anglers onboard catching and retaining halibut. In this program, all anglers that use the services of a charter vessel guide, whether they are paying or non-paying, are considered charter vessel anglers. Each angler does not have to individually compensate the person providing sport fishing assistance for this definition to be applicable. Compensation is also not strictly limited to a monetary exchange and can include a trade of goods or services in exchange for taking someone fishing. In addition, any person receiving compensation (whether or not they hold an annual sport guide license issued by ADF&G), would be considered a charter vessel guide and need a CHP for assisting a person who is catching and retaining halibut in Area 2C or 3A. In this case, the person sport fishing would be considered a charter vessel angler, and the trip would be considered a charter vessel fishing trip. (See Glossary for definitions)
    The only exception is for holders of Subsistence Halibut Regulation Certificates (SHARC). The owner of a vessel that is registered with the State of Alaska as a charter vessel may use that vessel to harvest subsistence halibut provided the owner has a valid SHARC. Only the vessel owner and members of the vessel owner’s immediate family may be onboard the vessel while subsistence halibut fishing. Only the vessel owner and members of the vessel owner’s immediate family who hold a valid SHARC may fish for subsistence halibut from the charter vessel. (50 CFR 300.66(i))
    8
    Hmmmm. Interesting dichotomy going on here.

    5. Will unguided sport anglers or subsistence fishermen need a CHP to catch and retain halibut in Area 2C or Area 3A?
    No. Only operators of a vessel in Area 2C or 3A with charter vessel anglers onboard that are catching and retaining halibut will be required to have a CHP.

    OK, so I rent my boat to a bunch of anglers and I just happen to go along with them I am not guiding them thus they are unguided anglers and can do whatever they want with their halibut.


    6. Do I need a CHP if my anglers catch and release halibut?
    No. Effective February 1, 2011, it is prohibited to be an operator of a vessel with one or more charter vessel anglers onboard that are catching and retaining halibut without a valid CHP for the regulatory area in which the vessel is operating. However, IPHC regulations specify that any halibut brought aboard a vessel and not immediately returned to the sea with a minimum of injury will be included in the daily bag limit of the person catching the halibut. (50 CFR 300.67(a))

    So I can still advertise "catch and release" halibut fishing if I want to. I've had quite a few clients this year that were just interested in going out and having the fun of the fight. Then we can go catch kings, lings, rockfish, silvers or whatever.

    7. I am a licensed guide; do I need a CHP onboard to take friends, family, or neighbors fishing even if they are not paying me?
    Yes. As a licensed guide you would need a CHP if you are onboard the vessel with anglers onboard catching and retaining halibut. In this program, all anglers that use the services of a charter vessel guide, whether they are paying or non-paying, are considered charter vessel anglers. Each angler does not have to individually compensate the person providing sport fishing assistance for this definition to be applicable. Compensation is also not strictly limited to a monetary exchange and can include a trade of goods or services in exchange for taking someone fishing. In addition, any person receiving compensation (whether or not they hold an annual sport guide license issued by ADF&G), would be considered a charter vessel guide and need a CHP for assisting a person who is catching and retaining halibut in Area 2C or 3A. In this case, the person sport fishing would be considered a charter vessel angler, and the trip would be considered a charter vessel fishing trip. (See Glossary for definitions)

    I guess I could just cancel my guide license and have people just pay me for gas and bait. There was a LONG thread regarding whether or not accepting gas money and bait money is considered "compensation" and according to a couple of wildlife troopers this is a perfectly acceptable practice and not considered "compensation". Guess I might have to just start renting my boat out and cancel my guide license.

    It's also interesting that it doesn't state anything about whether I, as a guide, can go out and fish for halibut on my own boat by myself if I want to. Anyone want to address that issue? I fish a LOT by myself.

    I'm a bit confused by how if you look at rule 5 you can look at rule 7 and see the same thing. I have a feeling there are going to be some serious litigation having to do with these confusing rules. Hopefully the work of the Charter Operators of Alaska will put a stop to this ridiculous set of comfish imposed rules in the not too distant future.
    Year round saltwater fishing adventures in Homer, AK.
    http://muttleycrewfishing.com

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    The way I read this is, that if you have a guides license and you guide only for salmon,you can't take your wife and kids fishing for Halibut on your day off,even if you use a different boat.

    If You have a guides license and no CHP, your screwed. You can never fish for Halibut.

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    Member Albradley's Avatar
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    Wow This is another example of your tax dollars at work...Now dad's friends cant even take us out on his boat because he uses it for his charter business...that bites.
    There's a fine line between fishing....

    and standing on the shore like an idiot! ALLEN BRADLEY-TANGLE LAKES ADVOCATE/FANBOY

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    I did hear, from a very reliable source that there is going to be a "full court press" in terms of enforcment of the halibut CHP this summer. Just like they did with the IFQ program when it began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I did hear, from a very reliable source that there is going to be a "full court press" in terms of enforcment of the halibut CHP this summer. Just like they did with the IFQ program when it began.
    How do you read #7 in the frequently ask question section???.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I did hear, from a very reliable source that there is going to be a "full court press" in terms of enforcment of the halibut CHP this summer. Just like they did with the IFQ program when it began.
    For anyone that's interested go to http://www.charteroperatorsofalaska.org/ and check it out. The permit system may not even get off the ground.
    Year round saltwater fishing adventures in Homer, AK.
    http://muttleycrewfishing.com

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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index...g.transporters This site has information on transporters.

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    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain T View Post
    How do you read #7 in the frequently ask question section???.
    I think it is all about seting the stage for justfiying enforcement.

    I would say based on my experience with three very expensive lawsuits against NMFS and NOAA that there is zero chance these guys have any chance what so ever at overturning this measure.
    Not saying it is right or wrong but just basied on my 15 years of particpating in the process.

    It it very difficult to get a judge to over turn the past actions of this this particular Council. Especially if it has gone through a complete legal review already and permits have been issued. The guys that got squeezed out, should have been screaming three or four years ago but when this was open to public review, no body really complained about it.
    I am happy to wager a dougnut and a cup of crappy coffee that any attempt to legally subvert this program will not be succesful. Just my opinion based on my years seeing this kind of thing happen.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I am not up to speed on all the rules like you charter guys are, but what I gather is, if you are a charter operator and you do not have a CHP, the only time you can catch and keep halibut is if you are by yourself. If that is the reality of it, that is total B.S. I feel bad for guys that like to take family and friends out on their off days.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain T View Post
    The way I read this is, that if you have a guides license and you guide only for salmon,you can't take your wife and kids fishing for Halibut on your day off,even if you use a different boat.

    If You have a guides license and no CHP, your screwed. You can never fish for Halibut.
    I'll have to look into this. I agreed to run a handful of charters this summer. But, if that means I can't take my kids/friends sportfishing for halibut out of my skiff, I ain't gonna run any charters!

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    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
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    If you are a charterboat operator they are making it difficult to use your boat for taking family and friends out on their days off. The reason they are doing that is do that when they enforce the CHP it stops operators without one from saying, that clients are freinds or family. It is crappy that they prevent charter opertors from useing their boats for personal use.

    I guess you could remove the green stickers and lsend in your log book page that states it is your last day of chartering. Leave your log books at home and then go on a freezer run. Or do the same in the spring, go out and fill the freezer for a day and then register your boat as a charter for the season....I think both would be a legal way to get some personal use time from your charter boat, if that is what you like to do.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttley Crew Fishing View Post

    OK, so I rent my boat to a bunch of anglers and I just happen to go along with them I am not guiding them thus they are unguided anglers and can do whatever they want with their halibut.
    Good idea, but you'll get hammered for that.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCAPT View Post
    I think it is all about seting the stage for justfiying enforcement.

    I would say based on my experience with three very expensive lawsuits against NMFS and NOAA that there is zero chance these guys have any chance what so ever at overturning this measure.
    Not saying it is right or wrong but just basied on my 15 years of particpating in the process.

    It it very difficult to get a judge to over turn the past actions of this this particular Council. Especially if it has gone through a complete legal review already and permits have been issued. The guys that got squeezed out, should have been screaming three or four years ago but when this was open to public review, no body really complained about it.
    I am happy to wager a dougnut and a cup of crappy coffee that any attempt to legally subvert this program will not be succesful. Just my opinion based on my years seeing this kind of thing happen.
    Well, then maybe it's about time we stop laying down like puppy dogs and band together and do something that seems to be obviously something that could be fought with some proper organization. I will not claim to know that much about what has transpired in the last number of years trying to fight the NMFS or NOAA, but there isn't a governmental agency that is totally immune to public pressure---especially when our legislators get behind it. I will make it no secret that I am no fan of Sarah Failin or the Pea Party (sorry if my spelling isn't up to par), but she has done things a lot of other politicians haven't been able to accomplish. Not to mention Don Young and the late great Ted Stevens. Our country was founded on subversives trying their best to undermine totalitarian rule and the last thing I remember learning in school was that we live in a democracy that is ruled by the people that make up that democracy.

    Your statement, Andy, that, "It it (sic) very difficult to get a judge to over turn the past actions of this this (sic) particular Council. Especially is it has gone through a complete legal review already and permits have been issued," is like saying, "I give up. They must be right."

    I'm sorry. I know you don't like my outspokeness, but I am not the kind of person that just lies down like an injured puppy dog and says I guess there's just no fighting back. Yes there is. It is called the American Judicial System and it is in place because injustices do occur ALL the time and the only way to get things like this overturned is to put it to the American Judicial System and let them have the final word.

    I don't have the slightest clue what sort of legal precedence this whole issue was based on. Do you? Do you think maybe it might be flawed? I'm sorry, but I'm not ready to just submit to some ruling some federal commission that spends millions of dollars a year on lobbyists to satisfy their agenda says that they can catch and kill about 13 million pounds of halibut as "bycatch" per year and let it die as they just throw it overboard and WASTE it. Sorry but as a sole proprietor of a sport fishing business that catches about 8000 lbs of halibut per year that goes directly to the consumer that catches it and takes that fish home with them and treasures the memory, and whose whole means of support is that business, I am not ready to just let some "big business" like the comfish people dictate things they way they say they should be dictated. Of course you don't have to worry since you've got a permit, but some of us that have dreamed about doing this sort of thing for years are now being shut out.

    And I won't go into the obvious contentious issues of what this is going to do to the local tourist economy. I have a whole "email" folder of people that have tried to book trips with me next summer that I just can't commit to. I'm on the verge of telling them to go to Cape Cod and fish for blues, stripers and tuna. If they come fish here they're going to pay the premium the people that have paid $70,000 for a halibut permit are going to have to add to their normal charge to offset that cost. And of course the ones that qualify for permits will have free reign to charge whatever they want since there won't be any competition.
    Year round saltwater fishing adventures in Homer, AK.
    http://muttleycrewfishing.com

  20. #20

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    It's done Mutt. Like it was said, you needed to be vocal 3-4 years ago. Go do a search in the fisheries management section and read the threads on this issue. Most of em got locked, but we hashed this out over and over again. I wrote letters to noaa, called noaa, called my congressman, wrote the governor, etc.. What did you do?!

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