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Thread: Radio for recovering game?

  1. #1
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Question Radio for recovering game?

    I have a feeling that this will be one for the "Ask a Trooper" forum but thought I would toss it out for discussion first. A radio cannot be used for hunting per the regulations but can it be used for recovering an animal?

    A couple of examples:

    1. You on a high knoll and your hunting partner is stalking a moose you have spotted. You watch him sneak in and make the shot. The moose takes off and runs about 500 yards then crashes in some thick brush well out of sight of the hunter in the field. Can you legally direct him to the downed animal from your vantage point?

    2. You are on a goat hunt with a few buddies. You split into teams of two and go after a goats in different areas of the drainage. Later in the day you and your partner have harvested a goat so you make your way over to a vantage point to see how the rest of the party is doing across the valley. You set up your optics and get a front row seat for the shot. You see a solid hit but the animal manages to make it up into the cliffs out of view of the hunters. Can you legally direct them to the wounded animal via radio?

  2. #2
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    My take on the regs... the answer to both cases is "yes".

    The radio prohibition is on "taking" game. This is everything leading up to the pull of the trigger. After the bullet has connected, it is now about the recovery of the meat. The regs do not specifically prohibit the use of radios during recovery.
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    The way I see it .Yes on 1, no on 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I have a feeling that this will be one for the "Ask a Trooper" forum but thought I would toss it out for discussion first. A radio cannot be used for hunting per the regulations but can it be used for recovering an animal?

    A couple of examples:

    1. You on a high knoll and your hunting partner is stalking a moose you have spotted. You watch him sneak in and make the shot. The moose takes off and runs about 500 yards then crashes in some thick brush well out of sight of the hunter in the field. Can you legally direct him to the downed animal from your vantage point?

    2. You are on a goat hunt with a few buddies. You split into teams of two and go after a goats in different areas of the drainage. Later in the day you and your partner have harvested a goat so you make your way over to a vantage point to see how the rest of the party is doing across the valley. You set up your optics and get a front row seat for the shot. You see a solid hit but the animal manages to make it up into the cliffs out of view of the hunters. Can you legally direct them to the wounded animal via radio?
    -----------------------NO--------------------
    Joe

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    But #1 has nothing to do with the taking of game.Maybe the law is worded different in Ak.

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    Member moose-head's Avatar
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    I think that the first instance is a downed animal and the second is an animal that is still being hunted. I think that it is pretty sketchy to have the radios with you while hunting.
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  7. #7

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    The regulation is pretty clear. "Misinterpreting" could easily lead to a "jailhouse" lawyer being able to practice his craft from a State provided office (complete with bars and three meals a day). Of course one could just walk over and tell them where the animal was, or, even better yet use a predetermined set of signals.
    Joe

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    I would say "no" to both.

    Having said that for no other reason, other than CMA...
    I would like to know what the States Attorney would say if he was presented with this? Or better yet ..two?
    Would they come to the same conclusion?

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Anyone got examples of hunters who were in such situations, were contacted by LEO, and were, or were not, cited?

    Guess I'm a jailhouse lawyer, but I say recovery is NOT hunting.

    I have an example.
    Local hunter (this is a true story) drives snogo out for spring bear. Sees bear, stops snogo and gets off. Shoots. Hits bear, he thinks, so chases after bear that is now running away. Fires more shots and recovers bear.
    Whole scenario is witnessed by LEO who now drives up writes ticket and tells hunter to drop off hide at F&G as evidence.
    Hunter gets lawyer. Hide is later examined for bullet holes. Number of holes in hide jives with hunters story and charges dropped.
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    Yes, radios may be used in a recovery effort, just be sure it is a wounded or downed animal that is being pursued. This to me, is exactly the same as a person sending a follow up shot on a wounded animal or finishing off a wounded animal during a recovery.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338WM View Post
    Yes, radios may be used in a recovery effort, just be sure it is a wounded or downed animal that is being pursued. This to me, is exactly the same as a person sending a follow up shot on a wounded animal or finishing off a wounded animal during a recovery.
    Why then, in the situation where it is illegal to use a dog, is the exception of when the animal is wounded specified in regulation, provided the dog is leashed?
    Joe

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Untill you know for a fact the game is dead you are hunting it.To me thats a gut pile in the works as you are standing over the game.To me the bigger question is how did the critter make 500 yards
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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I also think the answer is no, I interpret the "taking of game" as the shot and the recovery. Even if it does actually mean only the shooting of the animal, what if you thought the animal was dead, you radioed your buddy and told him its location, you went up to it and it was still alive? I would stay on the safe side of this one and only use the radios for other situations
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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    YUP, I've always thought you were still "taking" the game out of the field.. once that's done you can radio your buddy to tell him it's in your freezer... no radios

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    for the first one I say yes! and i would spend every dime i had fighting the state if they said otherwise, there is no justification in stopping anyone from talking to a buddy after the animal is clearly down, even if youre directing him to a downed animal, now the secound one, im leaning towards no, its not clearly down and hunters are in persuit of the live animal, not to say i dont think its ethical to assist in downing a injured animal, ide hate to see it get lost as a result of not radioing it in, but i think it crosses the line thats defined in the regs, however that stipulation defies my instinct to ensure it gets taken out of its misery and is harvested, i have radios, but never use em, extra wieght!!. Joe i know you can use dogs to find downed game, and the exception for not pursueing wounded game falls under the hound hunting regs, if you let out after a live or wounded animal its no different that hunting with a weapon, and dogs cant be used as a tool to hunt only track and find. we use dogs for lions/bears same rule applies, now in some other states you can let loose on live game, hounds and downer dogs, they chase, corner, and pull the animal down till you use a bowie to bleed it(cut its throat), that is a sport that will soon be dead, so few houndsmen anymore.

  16. #16

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    I would also be really interested to hear an "officials" take on this situation/issue. My interpretation is that they are not to be used during the hunting process up through actually taking the shot. The gray area lies between when a known hit of the animal and when it is known to be dead on the ground (at least for me). The regs clearly say radios/phones can not be used in the taking of game. When you look at the definition of "take" in the regs, "Take - taking, pursuing, hunting, fishing, trapping, or in any manner disturbing, capturing, or killing or attempting to take, pursue, hunt, fish, trap, or in any manner capture or kill fish or game" it isn't 100% clear to me. I don't see anything restricting their use after the animal is killed, but could, depending on your interpretation, extend up to the point of it being dead (not just wounded).

    For me, I would avoid use of any kind of radio/phone until the animal is known to be dead. I wouldn't see any issue with calling back to your buddy reminding them to grab the 2nd pack frame when he gets back to camp while you are working on butchering the animal. Just my view, but like I said, I would love to see what an official view is.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ret25yo View Post
    YUP, I've always thought you were still "taking" the game out of the field.. once that's done you can radio your buddy to tell him it's in your freezer... no radios
    I think your interpretation goes a bit far. Definitely the safe way to go, but I don't think that is necessary. The regs refer to the "taking" of game, not the "transporting" of game. In the definition of "take" in the regs, it doesn't go as far as including "transporting" of game. If it was as you said, I guess you would not be able to answer the phone while on your drive home from your hunt, or even up to the point it was hung in the garage or butchered.

  18. #18
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    For the record...

    You MAY NOT take game by:

    Using ... radio communication, cellular or satellite telephone, ...

    EXCEPT:

    -- Communications equipment may be used for safety; they may not be used to aid in taking of game.
    -- In the Unit 20D bison hunt, the use of ground-based radio communications, including cellular or satellite phones, to locate bison is allowed.
    Sending your "buddy" into the thick to recover a possibly wounded, but downed animal is all about "safety". The "take" part is over with once your first bullet hit the animal. That part of hunting is fairly clear, IMHO.

    For those who are voting yes on 1 and no on 2... the situations are identical. How do you justify a different answer for each? Both are a properly shot animal which has gone out of view of the hunter, but you have a vantage point where you can safely direct them to the location of the downed animal for recovery purposes. I don't see what criteria you are seeing that makes them any different.
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  19. #19
    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ret25yo View Post
    YUP, I've always thought you were still "taking" the game out of the field.. once that's done you can radio your buddy to tell him it's in your freezer... no radios
    Seems a bit extreme. Say I shot an animal and I have it butchered, are you saying I cam't call my buddy on the radio and ask him to help me pack it back to camp? According to the regs, the "take" is over once the kill is made.

  20. #20

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    As technology advances...so does our methods. Often times, it takes a court ruling to effect the change in our behaviour/reaction to the changes. I would not attempt either scenario, as presented, in a south-central court today. The Laws on Taking of Game were carefully and deliberately crafted to be vague and ill-defined. What one can get away with doing in one corner of Alaska, is not what most could expect in other parts of the state. Geographical/Demographical Standards are applied....like it or not....when in Rome...
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