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Thread: Proposed military land grab (JPARC) in the state of Alaska....what are your thoughts?

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default Proposed military land grab (JPARC) in the state of Alaska....what are your thoughts?

    I just got back from the public proposals and the showing of a "High Speed" action video of what our military does up here and why they need new military AO's for training. One of the areas proposed completely surrounded Lake Louise, Susitna Lake, and Tyone Lake. This area is proposed for the Air Force to utilize their new technology in a larger environment. Another one proposed was a massive chunk of land north of the Salcha River, and another chunk of land on the southwest bank of the Tanana.

    Here is the info online:
    http://www.jparceis.com/jparc_eis.aspx

    Check out the maps of these land grab proposals and tell us what you think

    Here's a picture of the land grab areas proposed. I read them all at the public meeting, and saw larger maps of the AO's this map isn't so good though:
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    here's the biggest kick to that for this area..... restricted air space... not good looks like takes over crosswinds then cuts through moose lake and then down to almost to palmer for the southern edge of the area.l.. wow thats alot of hunting that must be "pre approved" on military land..


    heres more information on what the areas mean


    http://www.federalregister.gov/artic...nmental-impact

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    LAND GRAB IT IS !! However in the intrest of "National Security and Military Preparedness" it won't seem so bad when the military takes 1/4 of Alaska; HUH !!
    UNLESS YOU LIKE TO HUNT OR FISH !!!!
    Just as the park service has closed park accesses and made wilderness areas out of many otherwise useable and accessable acres of forest land.
    Just consider it a done deal as the government will make a deal with our congressional leaders and they'll sell use down the drain.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    LAND GRAB IT IS !! However in the intrest of "National Security and Military Preparedness" it won't seem so bad when the military takes 1/4 of Alaska; HUH !!
    UNLESS YOU LIKE TO HUNT OR FISH !!!!
    Just as the park service has closed park accesses and made wilderness areas out of many otherwise useable and accessable acres of forest land.
    Just consider it a done deal as the government will make a deal with our congressional leaders and they'll sell use down the drain.
    Read George Orwell. P.S. You're right.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Have you been to the airport lately? no shock with this development.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    When and where do we comment? As far as I'm concerned they have 105 million acres they can use, its called the federal conservation system. They can fly over Denali and Wrangell National Parks for all I care; they're off limits for hunting and use for the most part anyway, depending on your zip code. Not gonna fall for this "its for your own protect" bs anymore.

    Tim

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    GET INVOLVED...

    please come or go to comment ... there are "scoping" meetings on this page http://www.jparceis.com/get_involved.aspx public comment welcome.

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    When and where do we comment? As far as I'm concerned they have 105 million acres they can use, its called the federal conservation system. They can fly over Denali and Wrangell National Parks for all I care; they're off limits for hunting and use for the most part anyway, depending on your zip code. Not gonna fall for this "its for your own protect" bs anymore.

    Tim
    They are having more meetings soon, one in Glen, and one in Delta. I asked questions about the land grab proposal RS-21112(1) due to it being such an area with so many cabins and people needing to access their cabins via plane, and about activities during hunting season. It was startling when I saw the sizes of those proposed chuncks of land, but at the same time, I would hope they truly need these chunks of land for joint training (army/air force).

    There is also a proposal to make permanent a restricted chunk of water off the coast of Seward that will be used for the "Northern Edge or Red Flag" training exercise. When I saw the size of that chunk of ocean, I thought that it might cause trouble for commercial fisherman or charters. I can't seem to find that proposal, but it is avail. to the open public, and they've had meetings in Seward......supposedly. That paticular chunk of ocean was MASSIVE.

    One of soldiers who was answering my questions was a Major with only four months in Alaska. He had no clue about our culture. I eventually reminded him that I was in over 9 yrs, and that he didn't have to give me baby talk about what I was looking at. I eventually had to go find another person to answer my questions as he had no clue, but understandable considering he just got here.

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    Hmmmm, I new the new "air strip" wasn't just for "medivac" reasons. Some scary stuff...

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Alaska has long fought this battle, even before statehood. I support the military in nearly every way, but I believe that it controls enough land in Alaska. Citizens will really have to make an outcry about this proposal, even if it means holding our noses when we write our senators.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    haven't read all the details here yet, but is it possible they will be locking up only for temporary "Exercise training periods" vs. just owning the airspace, etc.?

    hard to imagine they intend to grab all that for perpetuity. Unbelievable

    As an example, the Rocket Launch Complex at Narrow Cape, Kodiak is open for traffic of all kinds in the marine area just south of there until they need to do a launch, then they restrict travel for a few hours, maybe a day.
    Was a big issue when they were seeking approval, now is a non issue, easy to work with them, there's no way they could have locked up that area for all Marine traffic or Fishing, but they do for a few hours now and then. No Problem

    just wondering, Thanks for the heads Up Mainer, great thread, I'll get to reading?
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the expanding restricted areas at all... but that big orange thing that comes down by palmer is a MOA, not restricted. VFR traffic may NOT be restricted through a MOA... IFR may need to be re-routed if the MOA is active, but ATC controls even the military traffic in a MOA. It would be smart for a super cub driver to check to see if the MOA is active before flying through... or at the very least have his transponder on (military jets have TCAS), but it does not restrict access to lake louise, peoples' cabins in any way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    I'm not a fan of the expanding restricted areas at all... but that big orange thing that comes down by palmer is a MOA, not restricted. VFR traffic may NOT be restricted through a MOA... IFR may need to be re-routed if the MOA is active, but ATC controls even the military traffic in a MOA. It would be smart for a super cub driver to check to see if the MOA is active before flying through... or at the very least have his transponder on (military jets have TCAS), but it does not restrict access to lake louise, peoples' cabins in any way.
    It does, if the "MILITARY" says it does !! If you don't think so, just buzz the tower at Elmindorf in your Supercub.
    BUT, just think of all the jobs it will create and that will be it's selling point to Alaskans; along with the usual payoffs in Washington.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    I can't see the map that well. Whose land are they after? Is it federally owned or state owned? Seems like a little of both based on location, but I'm guessing its mostly federal land?

    Actually looks like state land after I look at the map again. The MOA by the Denali Highway is state owned.

    Wonder if this issue will fire-up Captain Zero since it's an expansion of federal rules and jurisdiction, even though its (I believe) on their land?

    Tim
    Last edited by tccak71; 01-14-2011 at 11:51. Reason: Addition

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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    haven't read all the details here yet, but is it possible they will be locking up only for temporary "Exercise training periods" vs. just owning the airspace, etc.?
    If you've ever drawn a Moose Tag on Ft. Rich, its possible you may have limited time or no time to hunt in training areas that have been scheduled for training. A few years ago, the entire Muzzleloading season was taken up in the area that was zoned for Muzzleloader Hunters. If training is scheduled for August or Sept in these new areas, there goes your hunting plans.

    TCCAK71, Just save the pic to your desk top and then open it and enlarge it for your needs.

    Thanks for the eye opener Mainer!

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    The one thing I do see on there that is needed is the corridors for the UAV's. It is incredibly difficult for the UAV platoon at Wainwright to get airspace for the Shadows. Most of their training comes from having to go TDY to the Yakima training center in Washington. Alot of the proposals look like modifications to existing training areas. The two significant expansions I see is the expansion of the Fox 3 MOA, and the Paxson MOA.

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    I saw a train in the dark the other morning hauling @$$ toward Anchorage w/ zero lights on. When I got close to it I noticed its payload of jet fighters on flat car after flat car. I've never seen a train move that fast in Alaska it was really weird there wasn't one light on the train....something is up

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodman6437 View Post
    The one thing I do see on there that is needed is the corridors for the UAV's. It is incredibly difficult for the UAV platoon at Wainwright to get airspace for the Shadows. Most of their training comes from having to go TDY to the Yakima training center in Washington. Alot of the proposals look like modifications to existing training areas. The two significant expansions I see is the expansion of the Fox 3 MOA, and the Paxson MOA.
    Area 51 would be a good training facility for UAV's ,the proposed lands would be much better for moose hunters ! It should be easy to get Air Force transport to Nevada, heck they own the Air Force.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    I saw a train in the dark the other morning hauling @$$ toward Anchorage w/ zero lights on. When I got close to it I noticed its payload of jet fighters on flat car after flat car. I've never seen a train move that fast in Alaska it was really weird there wasn't one light on the train....something is up
    Expect MIB to show up after sundown for letting the cat out of the bag. Yor better start writting down ever password, address and phone number you know as well as put a copy of your DL in your toothbrush case so you can Identify yourself in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Area 51 would be a good training facility for UAV's ,the proposed lands would be much better for moose hunters ! It should be easy to get Air Force transport to Nevada, heck they own the Air Force.
    Its an air corridor, no moose hunters will be displaced. The UAV operators would probably even practice tracking targets using the hunters (don't worry, these are unarmed UAV's). No, it is not easy to get AF transport for a platoon and its equipment to Nevada. I have seen how much of a pain it is just to deploy them to Washington, just to train to do something that they can do here. Not sure what you mean by owning the AF, but the UAV platoon at Wainwright is an Army unit.

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