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Thread: Stranded ???

  1. #1
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default Stranded ???

    I was curious if a person goes on a drop off unguided hunt does the transporter / guide whomever have any legal responsibilities to report "where" they dropped the client in case something happens to the one that did the dropping?
    I am sure a larger operation would have some shared data amongst the employees, but I could see where a solo operation could have a problem if they drop several clients and then say a plane crash took the life of the owner/pilot?
    I also am well aware of the sat phones, and other emg devices, but I am sure a lot of hunters venture forth without such safety equip. Anybody know of any hunters that were
    ever stranded???
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    There have been hunters and adventurers alike that have been left stranded by a forgetful transporter and or when stuff has happened but I have yet to hear of anyone being held liable for it but that does not mean it didn't happen.

    heck there is even a tv show about one of the cases but I forget the name right now. it was a husband and wife that walked out or almost walked out before being found.
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    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

    Before taking any of my advice for granted on here research the legal ramifications thoroughly I am not the Troopers nor am I the Judge that will be presiding over your case/hearing. Please read the hunting and sportfishing regulations and feel free to interpret their meaning on your own.

  3. #3
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    No requirement. You had better know where you are and have a backup plan to get out. I remember a guide telling me about his transporter in the Northern Chugach who never showed up to pick them up from a sheep hunt. They eventually walked out to the road. He thought the pilot did it on purpose angry at him for something. Of course he didnt use the pilot again.
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Absolutely! Back in the 80's, two good friends of mine were dropped of by river boat on an interior river by a transporter (won't divuldge the name) for a week of bear hunting. The transporter was a solo operation, and he ended up in jail while the guys were hunting and was 4 days late on the pick-up. He apparently claimed that he didn't have their location recorded so someone else could make the pick up and was eventually released from jail long enough to pick the guys up. The guys had begun contruction of a raft to attempt a self rescue. I doubt that would have worked out well.
    Last edited by Frostbitten; 01-10-2011 at 14:01. Reason: additional info

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    I was curious if a person goes on a drop off unguided hunt does the transporter / guide whomever have any legal responsibilities to report "where" they dropped the client in case something happens to the one that did the dropping?
    I am sure a larger operation would have some shared data amongst the employees, but I could see where a solo operation could have a problem if they drop several clients and then say a plane crash took the life of the owner/pilot?
    I also am well aware of the sat phones, and other emg devices, but I am sure a lot of hunters venture forth without such safety equip. Anybody know of any hunters that were
    ever stranded???
    Certainly - that is why at least two individual are provided with the following information :
    1.) contact information for whoever is providing the transportation services
    2.) location of drop-off and pick-up points
    3.) dates of drop-off and pickup
    4.) color of equipment such as tents and/or rafts etc.
    5.) what communication equipment, if any, you will using.
    And last but not least (not really), becoming informed as to the types of communications used by other transporters in the area you plan to be hunting.
    Joe

  6. #6
    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
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    While I do not believe there is a specific legal requirement, there certainly is a "common sence" and "best practices/policy" to make the whereabouts of all clients known or available. This is necessary for both unguided drop-off hunts and contracted guided hunts.

    In my case as a solo guide-outfitter operating mobile float hunts, my spouse in Anchorage has detailed knowledge of where my client-hunters and I are at. She is aware of this due to my operation plan and daily sat phone contact. In addition, my long-time air transporter support service knows my operation plan and received occasional calls from me. And my former employer and mentor (now retired) knows my entire operations plan as well as intimate knowledge of the country and all available landing areas. In the event of an issue my spouse would be contacting him immediately because of his (12 years) knowledge of me, my plan, and (25 years knowledge of) the hunting/guiding area. And finally, I have routinely stopped by or called the area State Trooper before most hunts. Again, he has intimate knowledge of the area, routinely flies over my first two camps, knows my ops plan and my guide/outfitter mentor (former employer).

    .....plan your work...follow your plan...prepare for the unexpected....


    So in the last six years I have not saw another hunter or even an aircraft that was not either under my contract or flown by the area trooper, yet everybody I know is somewhat aware or specifically aware of where my hunters and I are at!

    Dennis

  7. #7

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    I know a ex-master guide who works as an AP mechanic who was also a world class rafter. We ran into him one time nearly 30 years ago at Laird Hot Springs and he was about 130lbs when he was normally about 180lbs. He had been transported to the Eastern Brooks and his pilot had crashed and died later that season. He ended up having to wait till freeze up and walking down the river to Arctic Village-popping out two months later. His comment was never use your bullets for caribou because if that is all you eat then you will starve.

    Sincerely,
    Thomas

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Reminds me of the guy that was dropped off at a lake in the central part of the state, and was not clear about when he wanted to be picked up. He was found frozen in his bunk. I remember the photos from either Life or Look magazines back in 1979 or there abouts.

    There was a lot of controversy over who was to do what when, but they found out that the dude had met someone at the lake and refused a flight back to town. The flight service did not stop to check on him before freeze up, which I think is a little strange, but at that time of year things are busy before it ices in.

    He was trying to saw frozen green wood since he had put none away for the winter.

  9. #9
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff guys - I was curious as if the transporter or guide had any legal rules in AK about notifying another party like
    "LEO's" as a back up plan before leaving some chaps to fend for themselves. When I read of all the airplane crashes in AK and how many crash sites are never found it struck a note of curiosity about how help may come for a party left in the bush.
    No doubt sat phones and Spots are something worth packing I would think as when you count entirely on someone else that's pretty risky in remote settings! A person becomes a pretty small dot on the map for sure!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  10. #10

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    My theory is CYA cause your transporter may not ! I've known people that were misplaced/forgotten by transporters and as far as I know nothing legally was ever done to the transporters responseable.
    The only way my buddy got back was that his dad contacted the troppers as the transporter refused to.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    My theory is CYA cause your transporter may not ! I've known people that were misplaced/forgotten by transporters and as far as I know nothing legally was ever done to the transporters responseable.
    The only way my buddy got back was that his dad contacted the troppers as the transporter refused to.
    I agree Brav01, I am sure many hunters are working on plans for this falls hunts from the states and abroad, and perhaps this thread will help them ask more questions to their guides/transporters/ref checks etc and if need be buy a spot or something similar and learn how to use it before time to go...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Two years ago I was up in the Brooks sheep hunting. We called the transporter on Thursday using the Sat phone and stayed at the landing site for pickup. Friday, Sat., Monday....... low 30's with 20-30 m.p.h. Finally another transporter who had heard were in the area dropped in and picked us up. We saw the first transporter at a mid-point landing at Kavik Camp. He never said a word to us.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I thought actual licensed transporters were required to keep records on where they drop you? I know for a fact that I have been contacted twice by wildlife troopers in regards to investigation of other individuals and I was contacted because they got information on me from the transporter's records. Both times were within days of my flight out.

    Regardless, I won't venture anywhere in this state anymore without a sat phone. Cheap insurance to make sure you can get a ride home.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
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    For the guide-outfitters that operate on state land....when we complete the paperwork for different catagories of commercial services permits we are required to describe the location of our main camp.

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    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    SMOKEY, good on you for a fine tread.
    Back in the70's we did'nt have SPOTor SATELITE and I remember the arms of my bush pilot had ink writen notes..Sometimes he would write pick up dates on his levi's.

    We were 4 days overdue from pickup on a Kodiak spring hunt. Blue bird weather, season over, finally waved down a boat that called a differeny charters. OURS, he was busy spotting HERRING and figured we were OK till he goy done. My ususal bush guys was flying back with a group when someone in the plane saw these guys waving from a lakeshore. His plane was full so he told his hunters He could'nt chance landing but would return. He did, and lo and behold their charter guy had left the state to have his plane repainted.

    After all this stuff me wife was instructed to call the air service the day BEFORE scheduled pick up to remind them. Great plan, as once she called Kosiak and was told "we sold the Grumman Goose " and were trying to figure how to get them guys out. She, in no uncertain terms told them they had 24 hours to figure it out. A pair of 206 Cessna's on floats got us. OH, the stories that can be told. But, I made it out each time now at 72 yo, I carry my cell phone when taking the grand kids rabbit hunting or ice fishing and they know who to call.

  16. #16

    Default stranded

    Air Transporters are required to be Part 135 "Air Taxi" and the rules are very stringent on such things as flight plans etc. Also the Big Game Commercial services Board " Guide Board " requires transporters to fill out a transporter record and have a written contract with the client. This is a lot of paperwork, but to be honest some times neither the transporter nor the client know exactly where they are going till they get there.
    Last edited by airguide; 01-10-2011 at 20:08. Reason: mistake

  17. #17

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    I think if some one intentionally left you in the field they deserve a SERIOUS ***** whipping!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    Two years ago I was up in the Brooks sheep hunting. We called the transporter on Thursday using the Sat phone and stayed at the landing site for pickup. Friday, Sat., Monday....... low 30's with 20-30 m.p.h. Finally another transporter who had heard were in the area dropped in and picked us up. We saw the first transporter at a mid-point landing at Kavik Camp. He never said a word to us.

  18. #18

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    I can't even imagine that some one could do this sort of thing.I would have never thought this could happen.I can see a plane going down or some thing like that but to just leave some one is beyond me.

  19. #19

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    MOST guides and transporters overbook as they only have from 60-75 days to make the bulk of their yearly cash. Many guides don't even have enough assitant guides on staff to guide hunters until days before the hunters arrive in camp somtimes not even then. These are the questions hunters should ask before considering a transporter or guide service.
    Also consider a sat phone for your party (they are rentable) and a GPS per individual, that way you know where to tell the troopers to pick you up. Remember to have ALL emergency numbers on a plastic laminated card as all calls are not across the street but are international and if your battery goes dead you won't loose your memory (just change/charge batterys). Some places have rescue units nearby (like King Salmon on Kodiak) they can respond if called. DON'T be afraid to call the wife in the evenings and let her write down your GPS location, she'll like to hear from you anyway. If you give her the troopers number I promise if she doesn't hear from you, the troopers will get an earfull.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  20. #20
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    I was dropped of on afognak for a bear hunt a few years back. The transporter would not drop us off were we wanted to go but insisted on dropping us off at the head of a bay with lots of fresh water coming into it. I asked him if he was sure the bay would not ice up on us and he said not a chance. Woke up the first morning to high winds and cold temps by that evening there was 4+ inches of ice in the bay. We were trapped up against a rock cliff and a frozen bay for 8 days not able to hunt. On the 9th day we took the raft pulling and chopping our way for three miles until we were able to get to open water. We then travailed 10 miles around a point to were we wanted to go in the first place were we found a floating cabin owned by the transporter. Now we new why he did not want to drop us off were we asked to be! The transporter flew in that night to pick up the hunters that were staying in the cabin and told us he was sorry for dropping us into the frozen bay he said he would make it right and let us stay in the cabin for the rest of our hunt plus pick up our gear we left at the frozen site the following spring. At the end of our hunt he charged us for using his floating dump of a cabin and he never recovered our gear $2000 dollars worth. Later I contacted the other main transporter for the area we hunted and he told me that seemed strange because the bay we were dropped of normally froze up alot earlier than it did that year.

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