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Thread: Recreational trails; Who uses them?

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    Default Recreational trails; Who uses them?

    I've read several threads on here about recreational trails for snowmachines. I've never ridden on them. I don't even know where they are.

    So, who uses these trails that tax money is funding?

    Any information about how many total users for the trails and what percent of snowmachiners that number makes up?

    I'm ignorant about groomed snowmachine trails. Having spent a few seasons in snow cats building roads and grooming ski runs, I don't see why anyone would want to ride their machines on these "roads" unless it were for commuting purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    I've read several threads on here about recreational trails for snowmachines. I've never ridden on them. I don't even know where they are.

    So, who uses these trails that tax money is funding?

    Any information about how many total users for the trails and what percent of snowmachiners that number makes up?

    I'm ignorant about groomed snowmachine trails. Having spent a few seasons in snow cats building roads and grooming ski runs, I don't see why anyone would want to ride their machines on these "roads" unless it were for commuting purposes.
    Its been done before. But it is far from accurate! Here is a new one. I want the program to be abolished and replaced with a trail head permit fee type of system that is paid for by all users of the trails. If your not using an approved Trail you don't need one.

    http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/grants/snowmotr.htm
    Tim

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    Thanks MIT. There are some great details in there. Mat-Su did pretty good this year with a 36% increase in funding plus an extra $15k for a new snow machine and dozer rental.

    So, who uses these trails?
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Thanks MIT. There are some great details in there. Mat-Su did pretty good this year with a 36% increase in funding plus an extra $10k for marking.

    So, who uses these trails?
    Did you see the survey?
    Tim

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    I saw the survey. I did not see the results to date of the survey.
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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    I saw the survey. I did not see the results to date of the survey.
    I have read through all the Minutes on the sight, somewhere I found some reference to a previous survey that was taken but I can't find it now!
    Tim

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    Thanks for the info. That link helps shed a bit of light.

    Do you or any friends/family use the grooming?

    What's the purpose of grooming for snow machines?
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    It is not only the trails that are groomed but access to the trails that you and many others have used for years. In many areas the boroughs have been working on securing right a ways for this access. The people that do not use the outdoors do not want to pay for these trails anymore than you want to pay for trails that you do not use. Even if you had trailhead type of payments you would not generate enough income to maintain the trails. I am sure that you are aware that almost all state and federal charges for use of certain ares do not pay for themselvs. That is why it is important that we all work collective for all trails and access as there is more power in numbers. As was stated on another thread don't wait until someone buys land that you have been using as a trail to show up one day with a baricade across the trail with a no trespassing sign. It may not be a groomed trail but it use to be your access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Thanks for the info. That link helps shed a bit of light.

    Do you or any friends/family use the grooming?

    What's the purpose of grooming for snow machines?
    I do not know anyone that has used a Groomed trail and the maps and info posted on the snowtracs sight about what trails are groomed and the frequency are false. In at least one of them that I'm familiar with, that they show.

    I'm not a fan of groomed trails by taxes (registration). And the survey and rights of way should in my opinion be a completely separate matter; with a completely different funding source.

    Those that are benefiting from the current Tax are adamant to increase it and those that don't are adamant to abolish it.
    Tim

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    This is geting interesting and sounds like it is headed for 'us and them'! I have used groomed trails and will continue to use them in the future. Not everyone can get off and play in the powderor the hills but just want to get out and enjoy the winter. One could take the idea that 'I donot use it so why should I pay to maintain the trails. Well I can think of lots of things that we pay for in our taxes, that not everyone uses. If we are not careful then those that want to stop all access to the back country will have a place to get started and shut everyone out.

    We all need to work togather to ensure that we can all continue to enjoy our winter time fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mit View Post
    I do not know anyone that has used a Groomed trail and the maps and info posted on the snowtracs sight about what trails are groomed and the frequency are false. In at least one of them that I'm familiar with, that they show.

    I'm not a fan of groomed trails by taxes (registration). And the survey and rights of way should in my opinion be a completely separate matter; with a completely different funding source.

    Those that are benefiting from the current Tax are adamant to increase it and those that don't are adamant to abolish it.
    I snowmachine, ski, skijor, and bicycle on groomed trails, both State and Federal, so I am a benefactor of the "current tax"(whatever you mean by that), but I am not "adamant to increase it". Please don't speak for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mit View Post
    I do not know anyone that has used a Groomed trail
    If you live in Fairbanks and you don't know anyone who has used a groomed trail, you don't get around much. Just say'n.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    This is geting interesting and sounds like it is headed for 'us and them'! I have used groomed trails and will continue to use them in the future. Not everyone can get off and play in the powderor the hills but just want to get out and enjoy the winter. One could take the idea that 'I donot use it so why should I pay to maintain the trails. Well I can think of lots of things that we pay for in our taxes, that not everyone uses. If we are not careful then those that want to stop all access to the back country will have a place to get started and shut everyone out.

    We all need to work togather to ensure that we can all continue to enjoy our winter time fun.
    Some of us don't just get on and ride for fun some us ride to get where we are going. I don't "play" very often. I don't want a groomed trail where I go. But if I happen to decide to ride to a place that has one I would pay a reasonable fee to maintain the trail.
    Which is a separate issue, then determining the public right of ways for trails. This isn't Wisconsin one day our trails may be highways. First priority to protect the trail is to get public right of way and that is the benefit truly to all and future Alaskans. Therefore should be financed from the General Fund and then if use warrants, maintained by fees of the users, (ALL USERS of that trail) not just snowmachines.
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    If you live in Fairbanks and you don't know anyone who has used a groomed trail, you don't get around much. Just say'n.
    Please let us all know where the groomed trails are? In the Fairbanks area that recieved Snowtracs funds. This year.
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by mit View Post
    Please let us all know where the groomed trails are? In the Fairbanks area that recieved Snowtracs funds. This year.
    I don't know anything about "Snowtracs", or exactly what "taxes" the OP was referring to, or who you are or what your agenda is, and I'm not looking to argue with you. Maybe you need to more clearly state your case, so people know where you're coming from before you start poking with a stick. The OP asked who uses groomed recreational trails. I do. And I know many many others who do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I don't know anything about "Snowtracs", or exactly what "taxes" the OP was referring to, or who you are or what your agenda is, and I'm not looking to argue with you. Maybe you need to more clearly state your case, so people know where you're coming from before you start poking with a stick. The OP asked who uses groomed recreational trails. I do.
    The more accurate question is do you use trails groomed by funds from the Registration (TAX). I'm on the record all over this sight on this subject where I stand. Please reread your own post before you accuse me of poking anyone. I thought you knew of a groomed trail that one could ride on in Fairbanks?
    Tim

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    Hey folks, thanks for the replies. If we can avoid a "them versus us" or vice versa, I would appreciate it.

    For the folks who choose to snow machine on groomed trails, why do you choose groomed trails over non-groomed riding?

    I ask because I truly have no idea.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I snowmachine, ski, skijor, and bicycle on groomed trails, both State and Federal, so I am a benefactor of the "current tax"(whatever you mean by that), but I am not "adamant to increase it". Please don't speak for me.
    Very good point and I agree, nor did I intend to speak for you. Who is representing your voice in the on the snowtrac board? I purpose a trail fee that will only apply to the trails that recieve the money and of co**** there would be a long lengthy debate about which ones that would be.
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Hey folks, thanks for the replies. If we can avoid a "them versus us" or vice versa, I would appreciate it.

    For the folks who choose to snow machine on groomed trails, why do you choose groomed trails over non-groomed riding?

    I ask because I truly have no idea.
    I don't "seek them out" per se, but appreciate them when I use them. Take the trails in the White Mountains Recreation Area (federal) for instance; they get a lot of traffic, and a lot of traffic from hot doggers who can't seem to maintain a steady throttle to save their lives, so they get horribly bumpy in short order. If they were not groomed occasionally, they would quickly become literally unusable. Same for State maintained trails into DNR cabins and points beyond...
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Quote Originally Posted by mit View Post
    Very good point and I agree, nor did I intend to speak for you. Who is representing your voice in the on the snowtrac board? I purpose a trail fee that will only apply to the trails that recieve the money and of co**** there would be a long lengthy debate about which ones that would be.
    Again, I don't know anything about the snotrac board. Never heard of it. (You don't know anybody who uses groomed trails, I've never heard of snotrac; now we're even). Perhaps you can educate me.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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