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Thread: What happens to guides who commit flagrant violations?

  1. #1
    Member moose-head's Avatar
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    Default What happens to guides who commit flagrant violations?

    There have been several guides, both hunting and fishing, that have been caught recently (this is not a new problem, but the recent ones got me thinking about it) doing illegal activities as a part of their guiding. It would seem as though many that I have seen have been flagrant violations. These differ from the brainfart type error which should be punished, but not as severely as a lot of the other actions that I read about. I would think that some of the flagrant violations should result in a permanent loss of the guiding license, as well as of hunting and fishing privileges for a time. What are the repercussions for guides who commit clearly unethical and illegal actions as a part of their business?
    If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction.
    Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  2. #2

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    Well.....Just to name a few, Loss of guide license, loss of a $90,000.00 aircraft, prison sentence, very large fines. This would be if they were lucky. If unlucky they suffer a horrible death, like Cappy.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    here is one recent example of what happens when guides and their clients break various game laws.

    Thinking back a few years about the Brenda Valentine "scotch double" on moose, only the guide received any legal action in that situation. From what I remember it was not severe punishment since they came forward about what happened when it happened. After all the shot was captured by the customers TV crew, so what are you going to do?

    Unless the events touch some emmotional cord with the public, they seldom hit the news. Usually there are one or two paragraphs lost in the void of what counts as news these days and if you are not watching for it every day you miss it. If you hear about something in the fall you read the Trooper Public Info Daily Dispatches and keep tract of some names and then start searching AK Court View for any legal action taken against those named by the Troopers. It does not take a lot of work or time to keep up with this stuff, but you have to want to do it. Why you would want to do it might be a bigger question you'll have to look into.

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    AGL4now,

    So what happened to Cappy?
    What was he accused of?
    What did he do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mod elan View Post
    Most of them just get a slap on the wrist. Unfortunately it all depends on where they are tried. Some DA's are ******.
    Hey hey this is a family site LOL you are right...
    Last edited by stid2677; 01-06-2011 at 16:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex View Post
    AGL4now,

    So what happened to Cappy?
    What was he accused of?
    What did he do?

    Wow didn't hear the name Cappy was made illegal in Alaska a few yrs ago. The state legislature passed it with little fan fare. So ol Cappy had a 6 months from the time it came into law to find a new name initially he went with Capri but it didn;t have the same ring as cappy so he ignored the law there you go the rest of the story.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibex View Post
    AGL4now,

    So what happened to Cappy?
    What was he accused of?
    What did he do?
    It is a long and horrible story, but the sort version is, client (from outside Buffalo, NY) shoots nice moose, nice brown bear is on moose gut pile the day Before Brown Bear season opens, they try to get bear to stand up, Bear gets Cappy, hunter will not come help Cappy, every time Cappy moves the bear attacks again, Cappy is begging hunter to come shoot the bear. Cappy tells hunter how to operate air craft radio, after about 6 hours of screaming and begging Cappy dies. Hunter opens Taxidermy Shop in Anchorage. Most guides boycott the shop.

    There is much more to it, but that is the high points. (O'but the stories I could tell)

    There is a fabricated, baldface lie story he made up, in one of the "Bear Tale" books.

  8. #8

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    Sounds like one of the big outdoor writers that wrote about his moose hunt in Alaska. It was the year of an early snow storm that locked down most of Alaska. He wrote how he "stuck" this moose with his bow, when in reality he shot it with a .300 mag. I know a person that was there....

  9. #9

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    And just as you post this, this is posted in the newsminer..

    http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_s...dow_left_top_2

  10. #10
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    http://community.adn.com/adn/node/148698#

    http://newsminer.com/pages/full_stor...dow_left_top_2

    http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regiona...GES=6&state=AK

    http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_s...ife-violations

    Byrom Lamb, plane incident

    From reading these it appears that the state is NOT easy on guides who have had violations IMO. Loss of planes, licenses, etc. Doesn't pay to break the law. Not just guides that break the laws it is pretty wild to search violations, lots of fake guides (as some of these maybe are) to which also give the otherwise hard working legal guides a bad name.
    Mike
    www.coffmancoveak.com
    Prince of Wales Island

  11. #11
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    #1-Slap on the wrist.

    #2-Getting warmer by taking the plane but not enough.

    #3-Big deal, lite spanking.

    #4-Trial not over but the max penalty will only be a lite tap on the back of the hand. These guys make so much money they can turn around and purchase a whole new fleet of planes tomorrow. They already replaced the one confiscated for the trial. And they were joking about it.

  12. #12
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Like any court case, it depends. That's why there is a judge, jury and lawyers on both sides. You may love the system or hate it, but that's the system and "It Depends".

    Go to the State of Alaska Court website to look up the cases that concern you. More specific details can be obtained directly from the court. The ambiguous forum rules prevent me for posting the link.

  13. #13
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    What was ol' cappy doing to try and make the bear standup and why didn't cappy shoot it?

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    Location: Tok
    Case Number: 09-xxxxxxx
    Type: Change of Plea - Guide Violations, Unlawful Possession &
    Transportation of Game, Take Sublegal Sheep
    Text: On 11/3/10 in Tok District Court, registered big game Master Guide
    *************, ** yoa of Montana, pled guilty to charges of
    unlawful possession and transportation of game and failing to report a
    violation as a big game guide. Per a plea agreement with the state,
    charges of guide commit or aid in a violation were dismissed. As per
    the agreement with the states prosecutor, ******* was sentenced to a
    total fine of $10,000 with $5,500 suspended, 30 days in jail with all 30
    suspended, pay restitution to the state of $1,100 for an illegally taken
    Dall Sheep and placed on probation for 3 years. In addition, ********
    Alaska Master Guide license was revoked for a period of 5 years.



    Assistant big game guide ***** *******, 28 yoa of ******, pled
    guilty to charges of taking a sublegal sheep for directing a client to
    take a sheep that did not meet legal size requirements and unlawful
    possession and transportation of game. ******** was sentenced to a
    total of $1000 in fines and must pay restitution of $1,100 for the sheep
    to the state.

    Stuff does happen but IMO not enough. Should have lost his license for life and nothing suspended

  15. #15
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    Location: Tok
    Case Number: 09-xxxxxxx
    Type: Change of Plea - Guide Violations, Unlawful Possession &
    Transportation of Game, Take Sublegal Sheep
    Text: On 11/3/10 in Tok District Court, registered big game Master Guide
    *************, ** yoa of Montana, pled guilty to charges of
    unlawful possession and transportation of game and failing to report a
    violation as a big game guide. Per a plea agreement with the state,
    charges of guide commit or aid in a violation were dismissed. As per
    the agreement with the states prosecutor, ******* was sentenced to a
    total fine of $10,000 with $5,500 suspended, 30 days in jail with all 30
    suspended, pay restitution to the state of $1,100 for an illegally taken
    Dall Sheep and placed on probation for 3 years. In addition, ********
    Alaska Master Guide license was revoked for a period of 5 years.



    Assistant big game guide ***** *******, 28 yoa of ******, pled
    guilty to charges of taking a sublegal sheep for directing a client to
    take a sheep that did not meet legal size requirements and unlawful
    possession and transportation of game. ******** was sentenced to a
    total of $1000 in fines and must pay restitution of $1,100 for the sheep
    to the state.

    Stuff does happen but IMO not enough. Should have lost his license for life and nothing suspended
    The sad thing is that the guy who kills a 15/16ths ram (just under full curl) and turns himself in after packing out all meat and evidence and handing it over gets just as much or more pain for his honesty in the matter.

    Same goes for a guy who kills a 49 1/4" moose in a 50" area. Guy packs out all meat, horns etc. turns himself in after the tape measure shows the bad news and he gets the max in penalties....seen it before.
    The system sucks.
    Proud to be an American!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    What was ol' cappy doing to try and make the bear standup and why didn't cappy shoot it?
    The hunter was Nelson, he was a replacement hunter, as the booked hunter could not make it, and sent his friend the Buffalo Taxidermist. Nelson closed his Anchorage shop after about 25 years and went home to Buffalo. I know this is all true because this what Nelson told the Alaska State Trooper & the pilot that flew the Trooper into the mauling. I happened to have coffee with both the pilot and the Trooper a few day after. The bear buried Cappy at least partly, Cappy had put the hunter Nelson up a tree, not for his safety, but so he could get a clear shot, while Cappy walked toward the bear to try and get it to stand up so Nelson could shoot it. This was 40 years ago, and I do not remember if Cappy got a shot off, I think that he did.

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