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Thread: Guides Shooting

  1. #1

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    As a guide when do you shoot to assist a client in securing an animal?

  2. #2
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    How about "Never"?

    The better question would be 'Why' would a Guide shoot to "Assist" in securing an animal??? Shouldn't they only shoot when its to protect the life of the client?? Who wants to pay 15,000$ +++to have someone else shoot what the client came to shoot?
    I'd demand a refund, 'cause thats too much $$ to pay to be a tourist,reciving a souviner hide or horns if I came to hunt and didnt get 'em myself..
    If a fellow has a rifle and is "on" the animal, then its time to "Hunt". Nothing is a guarenteed "in the bag" when it comes to hunting, and in no way should a Guide have to step in to 'make sure", ever. He's done his job, or the guy thats looking for a kill is just a packing partner footing the bill. No good there.

    If Im a partner with a fellow and were hunting together, then theres a deed to be done and divvy up. If it were a situation where I pay someone to keep my camp and help me find what ever, then I have a a shot to make, and noone else.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  3. #3

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    Only if the animal is clearly 100% in my judgment hit anyplace.............And-And-And the animal is going to escape. Otherwise, I never shoot, even if the client say it is OK with him, when we talk about the RULES, which is as soon as he or she gets to camp.

    I would also point out 99% of guided hunters that I have guided were excellent shoots. The only mistake is shooting the top of a hill off, when the game is 15 yards down the other side, and we are 10 yards down this side. They can see the game clearly through the scope, but because the path of the bullet is 3.5 inches lower, they can not see the hill. This is one of the things discussed early.

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    As a guide when do you shoot to assist a client in securing an animal?
    When the client makes a poor shot which jepordizes the ability to recover the animal safe and timely manner. What Stranger fails to take into account is SAFETY is the primary concern. The guide is responsible for getting his/her clients back out of the field in one piece. Sure, the client might be mad as hell, but if he/she can't make a good killing shot the first time, they have no business arguing the guides judgement.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    I always told my clients is would shoot only if 1) they asked me to. or 2) if in my estimation we were in danger of losing the animal.
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
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    " but if he/she can't make a good killing shot the first time, they have no business arguing the guides judgement."

    Thats crap. If my first shot dosent work, I'm gonna shoot again, and again if nessessarry, untill Ive accomplished what I came and payed for.

    Oh I surely wouldnt argue with the guides judgment, its their call, but I surely wouldnt pay him, not one penny, probly sue 'em, if they judged to put a bullet into anything I payed them to guide me too.

    If Im taking a "poor shot which jepordizes the ability to recover the animal safe and timely manner" then obviously the guides judgment ha nothing to do with it. It would be the mighty poor Judgement of the Hunter to do such.

    Ive hunted before and I'm sure there would never be such poor judgement on either one of our parts, and this is just hypathetical anyway ~LOL!~.

    Then again, I would be very clear about this before hand, like AGL4now said, so there would be no such problem...if I were ever to be Guided....
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    " but if he/she can't make a good killing shot the first time, they have no business arguing the guides judgement."

    Thats crap. If my first shot dosent work, I'm gonna shoot again, and again if nessessarry, untill Ive accomplished what I came and payed for.

    Oh I surely wouldnt argue with the guides judgment, its their call, but I surely wouldnt pay him, not one penny, probly sue 'em, if they judged to put a bullet into anything I payed them to guide me too.

    If Im taking a "poor shot which jepordizes the ability to recover the animal safe and timely manner" then obviously the guides judgment ha nothing to do with it. It would be the mighty poor Judgement of the Hunter to do such.

    Ive hunted before and I'm sure there would never be such poor judgement on either one of our parts, and this is just hypathetical anyway ~LOL!~.

    Then again, I would be very clear about this before hand, like AGL4now said, so there would be no such problem...if I were ever to be Guided....
    There are somethings the the guide is compelled to do by Law. One is use every means at his disposal to recover wounded game, another is report any game law violations. But as was stated the guides paramount obligation is the safety of the client.

  8. #8
    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    If I'm paying big money for a guided hunt I'm paying for the guide to provide me with a camp and to use his knowledge to locate the animal being hunted and put me in the best position for a shot. I'm not paying for a back up shooter. A brown bear hunt is the only animal I could see the need for a guide to even take the rifle sling off his shoulder. Even on a brown bear hunt there are only a few extreme conditions in which a guide would need to shoot. If you're taking a shot where a bear can take three jumps and be out of sight into the brush then you're already taking a risk even if the shot is good. If I've put a few bullets into a bear and need to reload, then I might be fine with the guide putting a shot down range if the situation was right. Anyone can make a bad shot. I've seen Jim Shockey miss broadside animals and didn't see a backup shooter jumping in. "It didn't look like a good first shot" is no reason for a guide to automatically start shooting.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    When the client makes a poor shot which jepordizes the ability to recover the animal safe and timely manner. What Stranger fails to take into account is SAFETY is the primary concern. The guide is responsible for getting his/her clients back out of the field in one piece. Sure, the client might be mad as hell, but if he/she can't make a good killing shot the first time, they have no business arguing the guides judgement.
    I agree 100%

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    I always told my clients is would shoot only if 1) they asked me to. or 2) if in my estimation we were in danger of losing the animal.
    This is true. This happens more often than not. Many hunters wish for their guides to help them out. Especially on bears.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Wonderer View Post
    If I'm paying big money for a guided hunt I'm paying for the guide to provide me with a camp and to use his knowledge to locate the animal being hunted and put me in the best position for a shot. I'm not paying for a back up shooter. A brown bear hunt is the only animal I could see the need for a guide to even take the rifle sling off his shoulder. Even on a brown bear hunt there are only a few extreme conditions in which a guide would need to shoot. If you're taking a shot where a bear can take three jumps and be out of sight into the brush then you're already taking a risk even if the shot is good. If I've put a few bullets into a bear and need to reload, then I might be fine with the guide putting a shot down range if the situation was right. Anyone can make a bad shot. I've seen Jim Shockey miss broadside animals and didn't see a backup shooter jumping in. "It didn't look like a good first shot" is no reason for a guide to automatically start shooting.
    I once had a sheep hunter wound a sheep by hitting him low in the brisket. It is entirely possible that if I had not assisted him in taking the animal down, we might have had a dangerous and sleepless night on the mountain. Many situations are out of our control and you never know when a hunter may need back up. This particular sheep was running fast to escape behind a rock ledge where we would lose sight of him. If I (we) had not taken the appropriate steps necessary to take him down, it could have gotten ugly.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    To my thinking its the guides job to get you to the game.After the first shot the guide is then responsible to the game so that its killed for the safety of all. Don't believe a guide should have to follow game for miles just so the hunter can put in the maybe killing shot.Once wounded the game gets more respect than the client.JMHO
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    To my thinking its the guides job to get you to the game.After the first shot the guide is then responsible to the game so that its killed for the safety of all. Don't believe a guide should have to follow game for miles just so the hunter can put in the maybe killing shot.Once wounded the game gets more respect than the client.JMHO
    Very good point indeed!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    To my thinking its the guides job to get you to the game.After the first shot the guide is then responsible to the game so that its killed for the safety of all. Don't believe a guide should have to follow game for miles just so the hunter can put in the maybe killing shot.Once wounded the game gets more respect than the client.JMHO
    "Bout" as clear as it can possibly get. Great post!
    Though for us the decision of whether to shoot or not is a professional one and as such little influenced by the client's input.
    Joe

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    My question is how often does the hunter put on a shot that requires a backup? Is the assumption that a guided hunter isn't as good a shot as the guide/we are? In my limited guiding each fall, I haven't had one yet. We talk with clients about expectations and ALL I have had did not want me to follow up unless necessary. Haven't guided a lot but I do enjoy it and try to respect the hunters wishes. I wouldn't want someone shooting my critter that's for sure. Counterpoint, we have/had a fella who guided with us who has put a bullet into something like 12 brown bears clients have shot.

    Another question - for you seasoned guides, how many times have you had a wounded bear charge or endanger you and your client? We had a DLP last fall when tracking a bear but it wasn't the wounded bear. I wasn't a part of it but it was killed with a 12 gauge at CLOSE range along a river. As far as I heard it was one of 2 in 30 years and neither was a wounded bear.
    Mike
    www.coffmancoveak.com
    Prince of Wales Island

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    "After the first shot the guide is then responsible to the game so that its killed for the safety of all."

    I completely understand. No different than the way I treat children when taking them Hunting,(cept they dont pay~~LOL!!~~) but I have never had to step in, yet, either.

    Having little use for any Guide, I tend to not see things the way they do. Good info.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

  17. #17
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    Of course I would rather do all the shooting .But if the the guide shot, I'm sure he felt he had to.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
    My question is how often does the hunter put on a shot that requires a backup? Is the assumption that a guided hunter isn't as good a shot as the guide/we are? In my limited guiding each fall, I haven't had one yet. We talk with clients about expectations and ALL I have had did not want me to follow up unless necessary. Haven't guided a lot but I do enjoy it and try to respect the hunters wishes. I wouldn't want someone shooting my critter that's for sure. Counterpoint, we have/had a fella who guided with us who has put a bullet into something like 12 brown bears clients have shot.

    Another question - for you seasoned guides, how many times have you had a wounded bear charge or endanger you and your client? We had a DLP last fall when tracking a bear but it wasn't the wounded bear. I wasn't a part of it but it was killed with a 12 gauge at CLOSE range along a river. As far as I heard it was one of 2 in 30 years and neither was a wounded bear.

    Whether I shoot really has little if anything to do with the client's wishes - the shooting is either a resource and or safety issue. Shooting sheep or moose or caribou on my part was so seldom required I'm not certain why I even bothered to carry the rifle other than as a "walking" stick for climbing.
    Over the years, in hunting situations I only dealt with three or four that were really bad and what I would consider bad charges. However, that whole business of dealing with "stressed" bears does not seem to be very well understood either by a lot of guides or non-guided hunters.
    Though the potential for dangerous situations developing when dealing with bears is obviously serious, those actual situations are far less common than most people that shoot bears would lead us to believe.
    Joe

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    awful lot of video shows on AK brown and black bear hunts the guide shoot as soon as the client does, not sure some could even tell if the client HIT the bear the fired so fast.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    awful lot of video shows on AK brown and black bear hunts the guide shoot as soon as the client does, not sure some could even tell if the client HIT the bear the fired so fast.

    If the hunter is a "Plant" Like I had two New York State Troopers. and when I asked what they did, they said that they worked on the road in New York, on the Thruway. You get a "plant" and his buddy is videoing, and they have agreed that the shooter will shoot low so the bear will jump, but is deliberately missing. And you shoot.........your going to court and you are going to loose. O'yes it is going to be expensive.

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