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Thread: Maximum PBR

  1. #1

    Default Maximum PBR

    Some posts on another thread made me wonder. How many of you actually sight in to your rifle/bullets maximum point blank range, and how many just sight in 2" high at 100, dead on at 200, or some other method? If you don't sight in for maximum PBR on the game animal you are hunting, what is the reasoning?
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Member GrizzlyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    Some posts on another thread made me wonder. How many of you actually sight in to your rifle/bullets maximum point blank range, and how many just sight in 2" high at 100, dead on at 200, or some other method? If you don't sight in for maximum PBR on the game animal you are hunting, what is the reasoning?
    I set 1" high at 100 with 200 as my dead on shot.
    I can do the impossible right away. Be patient, miracles take me a bit longer.

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Personally I like the PBR method. I sight my 375 Ruger at 2.8" high at 100 yards with 300gr TSX's. That is the magic number for +/- 3" from the muzzle to 265 yards. That is a 225 yard zero, if I need more distance the 375 is the wrong rifle for that day.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    I sight in 3.5 inches high at 100 yards with my .300 and 2 inches high with my .416 Works well for most all Alaska Game.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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  5. #5

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    Just wondering why people limit themselves. For instance with a 300WM if you just sight in dead on at 200 and are using 8" as the size of the vitals, you have to hold over just to make a 300 yard shot. If you use the PBR method, you can hold center of target out to 350 yards and out to 400 you don't even have to hold above the top of the shoulder on a moose. If you don't use PBR, why not. I'm sure some people have good reasoning for it?
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    I dont because I will never make a shot that far. ( on big game ) If it is futher than 200 I will stalk closer or wait for it to come to me if it doesn't happen it wasn't meant to be I will go after another animal. Even tho I am a very proficient shooter and confident in my ability and my equipment why risk it on a long shot when I can have some patience for it to come closer to me? I dont know maybe it is just me when I am going for a meat animal I would rather them be closer. When I hunt predators however longer shots are fairly common depending on where I am calling at and predators dont tend to hang around as long as a moose or bear will shots are usually few and far between and usually while they are running or far away.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I sight in a inch high at fifty yards which puts me dead on at the longest shot I'll take at game
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    And here I thought PBR meant Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.

    I sight various rifles to their best ranges. I have a few scopes with multiple marks that give me an idea at ranges other than that of the zero.
    On rifles like a 45-70 lever gun, I sight at 100 yards and know how far it drops at 150 and 200. ( I have those readings taped on the stock)

    Personally I think 300 yards is a maximum ethical hunting range for almost everything. (except maybe Sheep and Goats)
    Yes you might be Joe Sniper who can hit a caribou at 900 yards.... BUT... wounding shots at long range mean that you will almost never get a clean follow-up shot. Plus it also means you will be walking for a long time before you get to the sight of the first bullet impact and try to follow the blood trail.
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    Funny - I foolishly posted a thread on another forum making a very similar statement albeit "my" limit is 500 yards and MAN! did I get it !! After considering all the views submitted to my thread I will have to say that "long range" is a VERY subjective topic - I have shot elk at 500 ranged yards with a 338 / 6x scope with one shot results which would, in theory, make a 600 yard shot on a bull moose "mainstream" although I'm not sure I would agree with my logic - I will always have a personal bad attitude toward the "joe snipers" who are too lazy to put the sneak on a critter when it can be done and the guys who are advertising and promoting this 750 yards PLUS as a pursuit and getting money for it really tick me off but I will have to say, in general, "to each his own" ...

  10. #10

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    An inch high at a hundred works on my 243. Dead on at a hundred for midwestern whitetail with any gun since most of them are suicidal and like to kick the bucket at a hundred or less. I have passed on lots of shots at 2-300 yards and end up killing them at 50.

  11. #11

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    Opinions vary obviously but here's my take. You loose nothing by sighting in to maximize the distance at which the bullets path does not go above or below the vital area of the animal. You loose a lot if a trophy animal steps out at 350 yards and you have a steady rest and no wind. Sorry but that's an easy shot in my book. If you don't maximize your equipment, you are guessing and holding over, which makes it not an ethical shot in my book. Why is a sheep or a goat less worthy of an ethically placed shot than a moose? I just see a lot of people talking about how their gun hits 8 inches or whatever low at 300, when there is no reason other than not knowing how to sight in a gun. I completely understand that if you're hunting dangerous game, or using a gun you are only comfortable with out to 200 or whatever, that methods change. However, sighting in a rifle to go sheep hunting so it hits 8 inches low at 300 or whatever other examples I have seen makes absolutely no sense to me. Like I said, opinions differ so maybe I'm off my rocker.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  12. #12

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    IMHO, people don't like to hold under. Something more natural about a little hold over than vice versa.

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    This is not pointed at anyone in this thread, but just a general observation on my part.

    Zeroing a rifle is a very personal thing. I've had many guys ask me to zero their rifle and prescribe the best method for shooting game at longer distances and I've come to realize I just can't do it anymore. Oh, I can zero their rifle easy enough (though I'd rather just help them), but establishing the range at which it needs to be zeroed for their ability is not in my repertoire.

    Maximum point blank range (MPBR) sounds good in theory, but I'm a more practical sort. I prefer to know things and keep it simple when I can. MPBR is a system based on guessing; I do not like guessing, especially when knowing is nearly as easy and much more effective. I use a known zero and work a tested drop chart rather than trust my guess that an animal has a vital area 8 inches in circumference and hold center mass hoping for a hit somewhere in that general area cause I'm pretty sure he's inside my MPBR.

    Along a similar line of thought, I've little understanding why some extrapolate their zero (so many inches high at 100) for 300 yards when they've no experience shooting at targets at that distance and cannot see a game animal in their hunting environment at that distance except under the most bizarre circumstances. Better in my mind is to prepare for the longest shot you have confidence in making while recognizing the terrain/environment you're hunting. I then recommend that you zero your rifle to make that shot possible and closer shots easy.

    There are better ways for true LR shooting, but the knowledge to consistently make hits at LR increase linearly with proficiency hitting targets at LR. Under those circumstances where to zero your rifle answers itself.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    I do not like guessing, especially when knowing is nearly as easy and much more effective. I use a known zero and work a tested drop chart rather than trust my guess that an animal has a vital area 8 inches in circumference and hold center mass hoping for a hit somewhere in that general area cause I'm pretty sure he's inside my MPBR.
    Not really questioning your logic per se, but, for the sake of argument, with the method you use are you not "guessing" that you are holding some prescribed distance over the vital area even when you know the exact distance and drop? I mean, animals don't walk around with rulers taped to their sides so holding say 12" high at 400yds is going to be a guess based on a presumption that an animal is of a particular size and that you are able to decipher a hold over measurement based on that size. Am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by evandailey View Post
    Not really questioning your logic per se, but, for the sake of argument, with the method you use are you not "guessing" that you are holding some prescribed distance over the vital area even when you know the exact distance and drop? I mean, animals don't walk around with rulers taped to their sides so holding say 12" high at 400yds is going to be a guess based on a presumption that an animal is of a particular size and that you are able to decipher a hold over measurement based on that size. Am I wrong?
    Using your example, if I'm 12" low at 400 yards that's ≈3 MOA. A few clicks--POA is now POI and boom. Pretty simple method whether your target is a ground squirrel or moose. No guessing and it happens about as fast as you can read this.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    Using your example, if I'm 12" low at 400 yards that's ≈3 MOA. A few clicks--POA is now POI and boom. Pretty simple method whether your target is a ground squirrel or moose. No guessing and it happens about as fast as you can read this.
    I guess if you have target turrets on your scope that works. I usually use scopes with capped adjustment knobs so quick changes aren't really feasible.

  17. #17

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    Just to be clear I'm not advocating shooting at 1000 yards, or even 500 yards. What I'm saying is you can easily maximize your effective range without compromising your ability to take game closer in. If you choose not to take a shot at 350 yards so be it, but you could hit from 0 to 350 (depending on your setup) without having to make any adjustments in holdover or adjusting your scope. You can still use the other methods if you see fit on targets beyond the maximum point blank range, but you wouldn't have to make any adjustments on shots out to your MPBR. I hear of so many people holding over and overshooting, when if they knew their ballistics and sighted in properly they could hold dead center out to as far as they should be shooting. I seem to be almost alone on this, either being accussed of being Joe Sniper or not putting the dope on the scope like Joe Sniper would do. Sorry but target turrets and sheep mountains don't often get along together. I do appreciate everybody's response, it was interesting to say the least.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I set my zero based on the game I'm after. For the spring bear I zero to dead center at 100 yards, this is because I won't shoot at one much beyond that range. After Spring and getting ready for fall I zero to dead center at 200 yards. I do use both ballistic charts based on my chronographed handloads and a ranging scope reticle. This method has brought home a lot of meat for my freezer.

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    blackfoot,
    I think some of the reason the majority don't is simply that they don't often hunt game that is regularly shot over 200 yards. So like others have said its just simple in the shooters mind to use the std 100 and 200 yards settings?
    I have taken many game animals under 50 yards and I practice those shots before I hunt as I have had the need for a "pinpoint" shot in brush at 20 - 50 yards much more often then having a critter in the open at 300 yards and beyond. For me it just boils down to how much useful info can I keep in my head and use when the time comes. No matter what caliber gun or model, scoped or not, that I grab outa my safe I pretty much have the same sight in numbers to worry about.
    I've beaned 4 black bears now at less than 20 yards behind the ear and they are def DRT no tracking involved. But, I practice that shot range and am very comfortable making that shot vs a 350 yard plus...
    Great question - I just don't think that many "hunters" are that into precision ballistic knowledge....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  20. #20

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    Smokey,
    Good response. I see your reasoning and have used it also. Also others have good points that make sense. It did start with a question because I was curious about different methods, but I have to say I'm dumbfounded by some. I don't think knowledge of MPBR is "precision ballistic knowledge", to me it's part of the responsibility of hunting IF you are going to shoot beyond 200 yards.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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