Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Help shipping rifle

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Eagle River AK
    Posts
    400

    Default Help shipping rifle

    Went to the UPS Store in Eagle River to ship a rifle out for coating on Saturday. The staff said all firearms must be shipped from FFL to FFL, a new rule as of about 4 months ago? I thought rifles were allowed to be shipped from an individual to a company for repair or work? Any help or suggestions appreciated as I have never shipped a firearm before.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,568

    Default

    Ship it through the Post Office. Much cheaper as well.
    Tennessee

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Hunter,

    It should be legal to ship from an unlicensed person to an FFL-holding gun smith or repair facility, including the original manufacturer (I assume they qualify).

    Here is UPS's policy (http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html). I've bolded the relevant part.

    UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

    Then per the ATF website (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html):

    Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
    [18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
    Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
    So, you can certainly legally mail the rifle from yourself (an unlicensed person) to an FFL in any state using USPS or a common carrier. The question is: How do they get it back to you?

    They could send it back to an FFL. However, there is an exemption in the GCA 1968 allowing you to ship firearms to and from a repair facility. They must send it back to your home of record. While Wikipedia mentions it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Con...pair_Exception), I couldn't find the relevant bit in US Code (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html) or in any ATF FAQ.

    Here's an American Handgunner article on the subject (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_75211978/).

    I would suggest using USPS. It is much cheaper, and you don't have to deal with the common carrier's conflicting policies. You are clearly legal to ship it via USPS. Common carriers can make whatever rules they want; they don't have to take your business. They accept significant risk by shipping firearms because all it takes is movement through one state with obnoxious laws or one bad ruling from the ATF to put a serious hurt on their bottom line. So many seem to have adopted some arbitrary and difficult rules in order to protect themselves.

    As far as getting your rifle back, you can call the repair facility before you ship and ask how they plan to get it back to you; they'll probably say, "Oh, we'll mail it back to you under the gunsmith provision, of course!" Given that they hold an FFL and do this every day they should be able to cite chapter and verse for you. Worst case you pay a local FFL a few bucks for the transfer but I doubt you'll have to do that.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Oh, more about UPS:
    1) They have required air freight (expensive) for years.
    2) They only accept shipments at central processing facilities, not pack & ships outlets.

    I didn't see anything on their website about recent changes but who knows.

    So if you really want to ship via UPS, I'd go to a hub processing facility with printouts of the relevant corporate policy, ATF FAQ, and US Code and talk to a manager if necessary.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Alaska
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HUNTERKJL View Post
    Went to the UPS Store in Eagle River to ship a rifle out for coating on Saturday. The staff said all firearms must be shipped from FFL to FFL, a new rule as of about 4 months ago? I thought rifles were allowed to be shipped from an individual to a company for repair or work? Any help or suggestions appreciated as I have never shipped a firearm before.
    The droids are stupid and full of lies.

    www.batf.gov. frequently asked questions. Search. Also search on here. Only about 3789 threads on the subject.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  6. #6
    Member 6XLeech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    2,162

    Default

    UPS: Regional Change in Policy?
    I inquired at UPS/Eagle River 2 wks ago, before planned revolver shipment to gunsmith and was told that the UPS hub was no longer shipping any firearms. I'm planning to ship FedEx.
    Good luck.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Eagle River AK
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Thanks for all the helpful inro. I will take it down to the post office Monday and see what happens.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Alaska
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HUNTERKJL View Post
    Thanks for all the helpful inro. I will take it down to the post office Monday and see what happens.
    P.O. as bad as UPS Store. Go to USPS and print regs on firearms. Will direct you to BATF. Go to BATF and print regs.

    Usually, when they ask me "hazardous, flammable, perishable or fragile", I reply "none of the above".
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  9. #9
    Member Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    I would never take a firearm through UPS. If you do, just don't tell them what you are shipping.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,802

    Default Summary

    UPS Stores, NO.

    UPS Hubs, Supposedly, but don't count on it.

    FED EX, Good for both Handguns and Long Guns.

    US Post Office, Good for Long Guns, but NOT Handguns.

    ALWAYS, be prepared for someone at the US Post Office to be ill-informed.

    Rifles ARE allowed to be shipped from an individual to a company for repair or work. Your choices are US Post Office, or Fed Ex.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I would never take a firearm through UPS. If you do, just don't tell them what you are shipping.
    You have to declare that you're shipping a firearm to the common carrier (i.e. UPS). Failure to do so is a violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

    I don't like it either, but it isn't worth breaking the law and becoming a convict (and possibly prohibited person) to save hassles on shipping.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Veneta, OR
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    you can always pull the bolt and send it separately - ship both as machine or metal "parts" as they are not "dangerous" or a "firearm" when not together - USPS is not a problem to ship long guns - UPS requires 2nd day air for all handguns, everywhere - FedEx has been playing ball but remember that FedEx carriers are private contractors so consistency is a potential problem, if you know your local carrier you should be home free (if you have a relationship that is) I use UPS, pull the bolt and insure it for the full value of the firearm but the post office has been easier to deal with (go figure) AT THE VERY LEAST, PURCHASE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION - NOW, write you congressman and complain about this, the UPS STORE problem seems to be a UPS corporate deal but don't know that for sure - I wonder if a call to corporate UPS would make any difference ?

  13. #13
    hap
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by back country View Post
    you can always pull the bolt and send it separately - ship both as machine or metal "parts" as they are not "dangerous" or a "firearm" when not together - USPS is not a problem to ship long guns - UPS requires 2nd day air for all handguns, everywhere - FedEx has been playing ball but remember that FedEx carriers are private contractors so consistency is a potential problem, if you know your local carrier you should be home free (if you have a relationship that is) I use UPS, pull the bolt and insure it for the full value of the firearm but the post office has been easier to deal with (go figure) AT THE VERY LEAST, PURCHASE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION - NOW, write you congressman and complain about this, the UPS STORE problem seems to be a UPS corporate deal but don't know that for sure - I wonder if a call to corporate UPS would make any difference ?
    About as completely and totally wrong as an answer could get.

    First, the receiver is the critical part which is considered a firearm. You must obey all Fed and Sate laws when shipping receivers interstate... The bolt is not a firearm. Go ahead and ship it seperately so you can double your chances for a problem. Verbal declarations are not recorded... hint... hint...

    It is illegal for USPS employees to make judgements about the legality of a shipment. If a USPS employee ever questions you about the legality of shipping anything ask them if it is illegal...

    Don Young has been on the board of the NRA for decades...

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by back country View Post
    you can always pull the bolt and send it separately - ship both as machine or metal "parts" as they are not "dangerous" or a "firearm" when not together - USPS is not a problem to ship long guns - UPS requires 2nd day air for all handguns, everywhere - FedEx has been playing ball but remember that FedEx carriers are private contractors so consistency is a potential problem, if you know your local carrier you should be home free (if you have a relationship that is) I use UPS, pull the bolt and insure it for the full value of the firearm but the post office has been easier to deal with (go figure) AT THE VERY LEAST, PURCHASE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION - NOW, write you congressman and complain about this, the UPS STORE problem seems to be a UPS corporate deal but don't know that for sure - I wonder if a call to corporate UPS would make any difference ?
    This advice could land you into a world of legal trouble. The receiver of the firearm -- marked with the s/n -- is considered to be the firearm. You could mail everything else if you want with no problems, but even a stripped receiver is considered to be exactly the same as a fully functional firearm.

    Writing congress to complain about UPS's corporate policies is useless. They are a private company and can ship (or not ship) whatever they want in whatever manner they desire.

    Instead, write congress to complain about the stupid GCA law that prohibits you from using USPS to ship handguns!

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nittanytbone View Post
    Writing congress to complain about UPS's corporate policies is useless. They are a private company and can ship (or not ship) whatever they want in whatever manner they desire.

    Instead, write congress to complain about the stupid GCA law that prohibits you from using USPS to ship handguns!
    Yup, and Boycott UPS Stores.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sandpoint, ID
    Posts
    1,969

    Default

    I am a dealer/manufacturer (class 07 FFL/SOT) and have had more problems with FEDEX than UPS and I do NOT use FEDEX as a result.

    USPS needs to be trained and once they read their own regulations my local Post Master has been very cooperative as have his underlings. When I lived in Homer in the mid-late 80's I used USPS almost exclusively since we the tax payers subsidize them they are cheaper. Usually, if you have the USPS reg with you they will be fine. GOOGLE can help with that.

    Another point, since I do coatings, I tell customers to say the package contains "gun parts" since they do not send stocks and expalin that it is not a complete firearm. Of course, insure the package and do tracking and delivery confirmation. The action/frame/receiver is the firearm but USPS frequently is happy if you send parts.

    Another point, if you require an "adult signature" some places will miss delivery. I have a small operation and I'm frequently in the shop when the delivery arrives and I have a compressor or bullet heater going in the shop I never hear the horn when UPS arrives. My USPS lady will come in with the package, but neither UPS or FEDEX will bother so I frequently find the "attempted delivery" stuck on the door 10 feet from where I am working....very frustrating.

    Good luck guys!!!

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Yup, and Boycott UPS Stores.

    Smitty of the North
    Even better yet, write a letter to UPS management explaining why you aren't using their services. Let them know that losing business because they make it unncessarily expensive and inconvenient to use their services.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Eagle River AK
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Poblem solved. I shipped it last week through the USPS, priority for $53 insured! Ouch! The cheaper rate would have put it on a "barge" according to the postal clerk with arrival in 3 to 4 weeks. Oh well, no one ever said life would be cheap. Figured with shipping to and back as well as turn around time for coating, I better pay the extra if I want to use this rifle in the 2011 season! Thanks for the replies.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •