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Thread: My Green Greenhouse project

  1. #1
    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default My Green Greenhouse project

    It's taken 1 1/2 years, but this project is almost complete. Everything in it, minus the panels and top plates are recycled from my shed demo project.
    That made it a lot harder, using old lumber.


    Dirt work...





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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Pre concrete work

    The slab measures about 10'x24'. Pex tubing for infloor heat. The tubing is new, but the screening is leftover form another project. Old greenhouse in back.




    2" blueboard with concrete cap. From Egan Center remodel.

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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default In floor heat install

    Placement of Pex and mesh.

    Hot water lines from boiler.




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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Concrete prep

    View of insulating panels. Where it appeared there might be a void, we slurried in beneath it.




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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Let the fun begin!

    Mud day....



    Now it begins to rain!


    Got her in.
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default

    Framing pics to follow. Soon.
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Recycling

    This is where the majority of the lumber came from. Old, twisted and hard lumber.



    How that project turned out..the "Dock"

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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Framing her up

    After pulling nails and staining the lumber, the framing could commence


    Bending the twin wall polycarbonate panels. It took 3 attempts and some reframing before I was satisfied.


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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Details

    I took some copper flashing (left over from a job at work) to a tin bender and had flashing bent up. Even the crushed rock is left over from another project.


    Got the lap siding on


    Copper ridge flashing, I ran short
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Closing it in..

    Copper tape trim. Hope it holds up.


    Door finally came in. I had to buy it, dimmit.


    Insulating the pony wall..had to buy it too.
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Almost close enough

    All closed in..


    Looking thru the poly panels..

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    Default

    Wow what a project! You are quite a do it yourselfer! I wonder if that polycarbonite yellows w/ age? My green house plastic is all cloudy and yellow now

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default

    very nicely done.. the missus was asking me if i could do one off the house similar like that... like your self i have a stak of material from building various places, so i guess i may well have to give her a go this next year..

    where does the poly come from? you said it took you three tries to get it right? what were some of the issues?
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    Wow what a project! You are quite a do it yourselfer! I wonder if that polycarbonate yellows w/ age? My green house plastic is all cloudy and yellow now
    Thanks, it's been a learning experience.
    The polycarbonate panels are guaranteed not to crack or yellow for 10 years. I read about some projects that are older than that with the original panels still in place.
    I can't really call it a do it yourself project. Just ask my buddies who are leery of stopping by anymore.
    I did get the interior pine lap boards up. I am starting the wiring portion. That began with a new electrical subpanel next to the full one for the house. I have a guy that owes me a favor helping with that. (I build power lines for a living, but a lot of this house wiring is a mystery)
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Twin or triple wall panels

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    where does the poly come from? you said it took you three tries to get it right? what were some of the issues?
    I appreciate it.
    I bought the panels from "Dave" on Craigslist. He advertises 4-6 times a year. If you look at shipping the panels up, you will be shocked at the shipping and handling. Since they have to build a crate, I had quotes in the thousands just for shipping. Dave brings up a truckload and sells them out of his hanger at the Birchwood airport. He has the trim and sealing screws. There are 2 sizes of panels. The ones I bought were 12x4. The others are larger, maybe 16 or 18 x4. I paid $110 apiece, a lot, but for the life of them, I am hoping it was worth it. Very happy so far. The number that I have is 242-7575.
    Here is a link to avoid some of the issues that I had. http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../sunspaces.htm
    I found this after I had framed the 2x6s up. I am no carpenter. I have a different spacing on each stud. My rafter layout is just as bad. I would even get the layout right, but nail the rafter to the wrong side of my mark. Of course by the time you are working off a ladder with a full panel that isn't fitting. Then realize that you have to stop, rip out the offending board and reattach it, it just eats up the time.
    Another issue was getting the panels to bend over the break. The second attempt I heated it with high temp heat guns and tried to lay it over a sharp corner. Unsatisfactory. Took em all down. Cut up some siding from the old shed into a radius and liked that, so cut about 30 more. To get the radius I just held it up to the end and took a shot at it. Worked. See post #11. It would have been easier to just cut the panel at every angle, instead of bending it around. Would need a lot more trim and potential leaks though.
    Getting things to seal after coming off of the bend is still happening. I will post a pic tomorrow of the latest dilemma. It appears that when the snow melts off of the roof and runs down to the insulated wall it refreezes. I must have some leakage as the top two outside laps are buckling. I think it is building ice up above the z strip (that should seal the end of the panel) and allowing water to get the inside of the outside wall. So I have torn a couple of the newly installed interior siding pieces off looking for ice, but don't see any yet.
    I am completely redoing the trim between the panels next summer. They were a bit short and I had the cut at the bottom on each one. Another seam to leak and looks poorly.

    I didn't have a blue print, so I am the reason for most of my problems. The link above will save you a lot of grief concerning spacing, snow loading etc. I cut the panels with straighted edge and razor knife. I tried a roto-zip, but it filled the cavity with white shavings, which electro-statically stuck and were a pain to get out.
    Last edited by bullbuster; 12-26-2010 at 19:11. Reason: Daves number
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bullbuster View Post
    I appreciate it.
    I bought the panels from "Dave" on Craigslist. He advertises 4-6 times a year. If you look at shipping the panels up, you will be shocked at the shipping and handling. Since they have to build a crate, I had quotes in the thousands just for shipping. Dave brings up a truckload and sells them out of his hanger at the Birchwood airport. He has the trim and sealing screws. There are 2 sizes of panels. The ones I bought were 12x4. The others are larger, maybe 16 or 18 x4. I paid $110 apiece, a lot, but for the life of them, I am hoping it was worth it. Very happy so far. The number that I have is 242-7575.
    Here is a link to avoid some of the issues that I had. http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../sunspaces.htm
    I found this after I had framed the 2x6s up. I am no carpenter. I have a different spacing on each stud. My rafter layout is just as bad. I would even get the layout right, but nail the rafter to the wrong side of my mark. Of course by the time you are working off a ladder with a full panel that isn't fitting. Then realize that you have to stop, rip out the offending board and reattach it, it just eats up the time.
    Another issue was getting the panels to bend over the break. The second attempt I heated it with high temp heat guns and tried to lay it over a sharp corner. Unsatisfactory. Took em all down. Cut up some siding from the old shed into a radius and liked that, so cut about 30 more. To get the radius I just held it up to the end and took a shot at it. Worked. See post #11.
    Getting things to seal after coming off of the bend is still happening. I will post a pic tomorrow of the latest dilemma. It appears that the snow melts off of the roof and runs down to the insulated wall it refreezes. I must have some leakage as the top two outside laps are buckling. I think it is building ice up above the z strip (that should seal the end of the panel) and allowing water to get the inside of the outside wall. So I have torn a couple of the newly installed interior siding pieces of looking for ice, but don't see any yet.
    I am completely redoing the trim between the panels next summer. They were a bit short and I had the cut at the bottom on each one. Another seam to leak and looks poorly.

    I didn't have a blue print, so I am the reason for most of my problems. The link above will save you a lot of grief concerning spacing, snow loading etc. I cut the panels with straighted edge and razor knife. I tried a roto-zip, but it filled the cavity with white shavings, which electro-statically stuck and were a pain to get out.
    k well i have two windows open on this so i hope i can get it sorta right...

    but some of your icing / buckling could be started right here...



    if the water runs off the wall and gets up under that edge it could start there and force stuff up...

    this joint here also has me wondering some too.. as it obviously does you too... post some better pics of this union.. a larger Z strip may be needed... but then the lap on the walls them self may allow water in.. i normally back it with a light OSB rather then straight across the studs as such...

    when installing the lap siding did you use any adhesive? on the studs? being older it should have already done any shrinkage it would do... so sealing the seams may be an option...

    also... did you put any vapor barrier ( 6 mil vis-queen) on the heated side of the room? before you finished it? believe it or not if the boiler is heating it you may simply be getting frost from vapor/heat loss in the room.. crank the heat up when the temp drops and look for frost forming on the exterior... that will show you were you leak is at...
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default I never thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    k well i have two windows open on this so i hope i can get it sorta right...

    but some of your icing / buckling could be started right here...

    if the water runs off the wall and gets up under that edge it could start there and force stuff up......

    I think that you might be right. I honestly looked at that when I had all the siding up. I should have torn it all off and done it right. When I asked a friend, he said I should have held it at least a 1/2" off the slab. When I took a picture today I could see most of the lap boards were kinda pushed away from the studs. I just got lazy (and tired of doing everything over!) and thought it "might" work out. Crapola.

    I did caulk almost every seam of the lap, if it looked iffy it got caulk. Inside and out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    this joint here also has me wondering some too.. as it obviously does you too... post some better pics of this union.. a larger Z strip may be needed... but then the lap on the walls them self may allow water in.. i normally back it with a light OSB rather then straight across the studs as such......
    OSB never entered my mind. Good idea. The pic I took is too blurry. Here is a view from the inside..


    This is the only ice I see on the inside.


    z- strip and caulking

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    when installing the lap siding did you use any adhesive? on the studs? being older it should have already done any shrinkage it would do... so sealing the seams may be an option...

    also... did you put any vapor barrier ( 6 mil vis-queen) on the heated side of the room? before you finished it? believe it or not if the boiler is heating it you may simply be getting frost from vapor/heat loss in the room.. crank the heat up when the temp drops and look for frost forming on the exterior... that will show you were you leak is at...
    Adhesive...another good thought. Learning here boss. On the insulation paper it said it was a vapor barrier. Never thought beyond that. Are you starting to see the trend here...more doing (and redoing) than thinking?
    I got frost


    The copper tape across the joint is just eye candy, it was supposed to look cool. It is probably funneling water..
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  18. #18
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    Default Inside

    I did get a pic of the interior lap.





    And where I am ripping it off looking for ice.

    Since I do not see ice inside the wall, I suspect your theory about buckling from the bottom is likely.
    I might have thought the ice on the slab wouldn't get too bad since it is a heated slab. See, I did think sometimes.LOL

    The ice previously shown along the z-strip happens wherever the panels abut. I am going to redo all of the trim between the panels and possibly tape the seams. Next year.

    I'll get a better picture looking at the outside wall tomorrow posted.

    I am trying out these "Red Wave" insulation sheets to insulate the roof during the cold. It is just friction fit and I should be able to roll it up and jam it along the tops of the rafters for the summer.


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    yeah the paper is NOT a vapor barrier...

    ideally that lap siding would have an inch or better in set so the water off the Polly drips PAST it.. could well be the ice running over it pulling it also
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    yeah the paper is NOT a vapor barrier...

    ideally that lap siding would have an inch or better in set so the water off the Polly drips PAST it.. could well be the ice running over it pulling it also
    Again, I agree. Looking at it now I am trying to figure out how to do that at this stage. Maybe release the bottoms of the poly panels and fir them out. It wouldn't be hard since I am going to redo the trim. Open to suggestions here.

    As far as getting the siding off of the slab, I am considering using a multi-tool, so I don't have to redo the entire wall. This project has gone on long enough! Time to plant....well maybe in Feb or March.
    Actually, the thought of running the tool that far doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

    I have a remote thermometer, it is 50.5 right now. I haven't moved the thermostat past 60. When the sun hits it it can get to 75-80 pretty fast. When it was subzero, I was at about 45. I am hoping to be able to grow year round. I'll kick the thermostat up to 70 in a few weeks and see how that goes.
    My gas bill is less than the what old boiler used without the greenhouse, so pretty painless so far.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm always looking for help.
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