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Thread: Delta Bison jan 11 2011... may be under fire to fence or reduce

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default Delta Bison jan 11 2011... may be under fire to fence or reduce

    Okay the Delta Bison working group out of Delta is getting ready to finalize there management issues with the bison..

    Th Delta bison have been under fire by several of the farms for crop damage, I received a message from a Fairbanks AC member and participant of the working group... that he really fears a proposal will be forth coming to reduce the herd population as well fence in the remaining population...

    both i believe would be mistakes.

    my take is this..

    the bison were there prior to any of the farms...

    and that my discussion with at least two of the farmers that are most vocal about the damage they do... is that BOTH of the farmers could afford to fence in their crops if they choose to.

    anyone that has a desire to see these guys stay as they are... anyone that wants EVER a chance to hunt them.. should provide input

    a simple note stating what you would really like to see happen with the bison...

    Mine will be support to keep them free ranging and growing if possible.

    email.. lennyj@alaska.net for any opinion... you may have... i will post a meeting agenda soon as i get one...

    Vince


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    damage assessment 2009
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  2. #2

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    Vince,

    It really is FRICKING ridiculous at what the farmers want. Yes, bison were there first, so deal with it. Also, ask the farmers to produce how much $$ they have gotten from our tax $$ out of that entire debacle of "farm" country. I have seen the figures. It is mind boggling. To fence in or reduce this herd would be a tragedy. This is a success story that needs to continue.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    will get the agenda out... but anyone in the area of the 11th... please try to make the meeting and get some hunter input in... if not Email your input to Lenny..

    i agree it is a crying shame what some folks want.. and they will get it if we let them...

    plain and simple if you don't want Buffs on your land put a fence up.. let the neighbor worry about his... hell put one up too...

    if you complain about the buffs and don't allow the hunters on ... then you should not have much to complain about.

    i know those are kind of general terms... and farms like the Schultz are great with hunters and have helped in herd management.. so not all of them are lumped in the same pot.

    but as a farmer,, if i want to protect may stock or crop from predators... i put a fence up around that crop or stock...

    i see it as... if my hog is out of his pen and your dog eats it... well BOTH are in the wrong... If your dog gets in my pen... well thats a different story... i have a legitimate complaint.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default here i will make it easy for you.... copy and paiste to your email

    Dear Delta Bison Working Group. (Via Email lennyJ@alaska.net )

    My Name is [Insert your name here] I do not support any proposal that may come before this group that would entail the Fencing of Free Range Bison, or see a reduction of the herd size as a test measure to see if it will reduce crop damage,

    The Delta bison were In Delta prior to the farms. I feel that The Farms should look out for their own interest and fence in crops for profit. To prevent damage by wildlife, as anyone with a private farm or garden is expected to do to prevent damage from Moose or predators on garden or livestock.
    Please leave the Bison Free ranging and accessible to Alaskan user groups as a whole. They are a valuable resource to our economy in many fashions.


    [Your name is]
    [Your address is]
    [A contact Email or phone number is]


    (if you support fencing or herd reduction… write your own letter.. )
    contact info is needed for verification purposed should it become an issue.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    How about we end the subsidies that prop up this "farming"? Personally, I'd rather have bison than these farms. The bison don't suck tax dollars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Dear Delta Bison Working Group. (Via Email lennyJ@alaska.net )

    My Name is [Insert your name here] I do not support any proposal that may come before this group that would entail the Fencing of Free Range Bison, or see a reduction of the herd size as a test measure to see if it will reduce crop damage,

    The Delta bison were In Delta prior to the farms. I feel that The Farms should look out for their own interest and fence in crops for profit. To prevent damage by wildlife, as anyone with a private farm or garden is expected to do to prevent damage from Moose or predators on garden or livestock.
    Please leave the Bison Free ranging and accessible to Alaskan user groups as a whole. They are a valuable resource to our economy in many fashions.


    [Your name is]
    [Your address is]
    [A contact Email or phone number is]


    (if you support fencing or herd reduction… write your own letter.. )
    contact info is needed for verification purposed should it become an issue.
    Good job Vince. This is exactly the kind of comment that I can do. I do not have time to research all the ins and outs or put my thoughts into a letter and at first glance I agree with what you wrote so I copied and pasted and emailed it in. I've never put in for the Bison nor do I plan on it, but if you continue to present these easy comment letters for us lazy folks to submit on any given topic that you're interested in then I'll participate and I think you'll get others to do the same.

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Vince thank you for taking your time and putting this out there so we can all particpate. I hate to see this hunt go away and hate even more to see that herd penned in. Sorry farmers...

    Sent the group an email Vince!

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    This is a fairly complex issue. Re: tax dollars, Division of Wildlife Conservation spends tens of thousands of dollars derived from hunting license/tag/permit fees in planting other crops in attempts to lure the bison from the farmlands. So far that hasn't really worked.

    Then we have the Delta 1 and Delta 2 projects, the first came with an agreement that farmers couldn't hold state accountable for crop damage from bison, but if I recall the 2nd didn't state that, which is what some farmers are saying could lead to successful lawsuits against the state.

    I honestly don't know anyone in positions of power who would support fencing the bison in. We went through that at one of the meetings, the costs etc are phenomenal. Not to mention how that would impact other free-ranging wild game. So while that was dicussed I sure don't see that as a potential outcome at all.

    There are some who do favor reducing the herd size. Relocation isn't an option. And there are some valid reasons for reducing the herd size.

    But I think I'm with most others on this, I say the farmers should fence their private property. There was talk of subsidizing that fencing too to a degree. I'd support that if it was the only way to see that happen on the Delta 2 lands.
    But I don't like the precedent it sets. Some farmers can afford to fence their lands, but some can't. We already spend so much on trying to divert the bison away from the farms. (FYI not all the farmers receive farm subsidies, some are opposed to that.)

    One of the other things to come out was that the big money is in growing seed potatoes that are free of any diseases that China desperately wants and will pay big money for. So during that meeting while I have a helluva lot of respect for that farmer, I felt him asking to reduce the herd or fence the herd in, so he could grow seed potatoes to ship to China...well I appreciate his honesty but that didn't go over so well for me.

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    I have to say, while I understand the frustration of farmers dealing with crop damage, the idea of reducing or fencing this herd, which is not very big to begin with is some of the most selfish garbage I have ever seen. We are expected to reduce (drastically) the most popular hunt in Alaska that hundreds of people participate in and thousands apply for every year, just to benefit at most a few dozen people. The fact that it is even being entertained as a possible solution infuriates me. I was lucky enough to draw this permit a few years ago, and odds are I never will again. But I had a great hunt and took my animal with my kids beside me. Farmers want to protect their crops, then fence them in. They all new the risks when they started farming there. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but give me a break. I actually would love to live in Delta and farm some day, it's how I was raised. But I will never support reducing this herd for the benefit of a few farmers and there wallets. Heck if that's how we are going to do things I should get to shoot the moose that eat my garden every year. or any critter that in any way impacts my wallet.

    This herd is already poached heavier than any other herd of critters in Alaska percentage wise. And yet it thrives. There are few enough of these critters left in North America. And that is because of the needs and desires of Farmers and Ranchers more than anything. Thats why the bounty on bison during the 1800's existed. Now we are considering letting one of the few wild herds that exist today be reduced or fenced because of the wants of who???? Farmers wow that sounds familiar. I would rather see the farms bought back by the state than that. Then we could grow the herd even bigger, and even more Alaskans could benefit from it.... Actually I like that idea. I would gladly support my tax dollars being used for that.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    This is a fairly complex issue. Re: tax dollars, Division of Wildlife Conservation spends tens of thousands of dollars derived from hunting license/tag/permit fees in planting other crops in attempts to lure the bison from the farmlands. So far that hasn't really worked.

    Then we have the Delta 1 and Delta 2 projects, the first came with an agreement that farmers couldn't hold state accountable for crop damage from bison, but if I recall the 2nd didn't state that, which is what some farmers are saying could lead to successful lawsuits against the state.

    I honestly don't know anyone in positions of power who would support fencing the bison in. We went through that at one of the meetings, the costs etc are phenomenal. Not to mention how that would impact other free-ranging wild game. So while that was dicussed I sure don't see that as a potential outcome at all.

    There are some who do favor reducing the herd size. Relocation isn't an option. And there are some valid reasons for reducing the herd size.

    But I think I'm with most others on this, I say the farmers should fence their private property. There was talk of subsidizing that fencing too to a degree. I'd support that if it was the only way to see that happen on the Delta 2 lands.
    But I don't like the precedent it sets. Some farmers can afford to fence their lands, but some can't. We already spend so much on trying to divert the bison away from the farms. (FYI not all the farmers receive farm subsidies, some are opposed to that.)

    One of the other things to come out was that the big money is in growing seed potatoes that are free of any diseases that China desperately wants and will pay big money for. So during that meeting while I have a helluva lot of respect for that farmer, I felt him asking to reduce the herd or fence the herd in, so he could grow seed potatoes to ship to China...well I appreciate his honesty but that didn't go over so well for me.
    well mark for the one meeting i took you too... this has gone down hill since. The Message has been Darker at each AC meeting since, and those on the working committe for the bison.. are feeling that herd reduction is strongly on the table as is fencing them in. Lenny, asked me at the December 8th meeting to help get some support for the herd going and stated that anyone avalible should be at the meeting in delta.. it may be a hot one. He has been working closly with all the groups involved and has a strong feel for the direction it is headed.

    we can " not imagine" all we want. fact-o-matter is... dumber crap has happened.
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    I would like to suggest we DO NOT use Vince’s form letter. Board members who read a form letter where someone simply cut and pasted his/her name has much less of an impact as a quick note stating in your own words what YOU think. You can use Vince’s ideas, you can say you simply want the hunt keep as it is, you can do your own homework and provide you own proposal.

    Vince has done the legwork of getting the address to send it too. It will take you ten minutes at most to type out a similar statement and sent it to the Delta Bison Group.

    If you read this and are not willing to act, in my opinion you should not be putting in for the hunt. We all as hunters have an obligation to support our heritage.

    Just my nickel,
    Drew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddler View Post
    I would like to suggest we DO NOT use Vince’s form letter. Board members who read a form letter where someone simply cut and pasted his/her name has much less of an impact as a quick note stating in your own words what YOU think. You can use Vince’s ideas, you can say you simply want the hunt keep as it is, you can do your own homework and provide you own proposal.

    Vince has done the legwork of getting the address to send it too. It will take you ten minutes at most to type out a similar statement and sent it to the Delta Bison Group.

    If you read this and are not willing to act, in my opinion you should not be putting in for the hunt. We all as hunters have an obligation to support our heritage.

    Just my nickel,
    Drew
    i agree a personel letter is best. the contact email is more then just leg work. lenny asked that any opinon be sent to him. as he feels about the same as i do. and will be sticking to his guns...

    but even if you just use the form letter, he will have a NUMBER to show folks which is more often; NOT the case when it comes to our issues. to often hunters are not aware, or are too busy to respond and are never counted...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Here is another email to reply to .. this is the Chair of the DELTA Advisory Committee... he just gave me permission to give out..

    is fettingsberg@yahoo.com and lennyj@alaska.net for opinons... both will be attending the meeting
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Vince,
    Thanks for the legwork. I sent in my letter to keep the herds free ranging.
    Keep us posted please.
    BK

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    I had an article in the Summer 2009 AOC newsletter regarding this problem. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available on their website.

    Another facet of this problem is the Publisher/Editor of The Delta Wind who is also chairman of the Alaska Farm Bureau, Delta. He has stated at meetings and published in the Delta Wind that he wants the Delta Bison Herd eliminated [reduced to pre-1927 levels] as the bison are an invasive species etc. Needless to say, I don't buy his paper.

    I urge concerned folks to contact their legislator as they have already been contacted by farmers looking for $$$$$ fencing and crop damage.

    This is only a very small part of the farm owners that are complaining.

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    Sent in mine as well, I want to be able to hunt a bison once I get up there.

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    Yeah, thanks again Vince. It is guys like you that help protect the rights of all of us. I appreciate what you've done. Keep up the good work. I wish I could make it to your advisory committee. It is too far out of my way to drive up. But I do have a suggestion. Has anybody considered offering the landowners crop damage permits like they offer in other states with high deer densities. Perhaps they would the farmers would think twice if they could get a little meat in return. Basically some of the permits allocated currently under the draw system could be reallocated to the farmers to harvest to protect their crops. Just an idea. I will send a letter as you requested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    Yeah, thanks again Vince. It is guys like you that help protect the rights of all of us. I appreciate what you've done. Keep up the good work. I wish I could make it to your advisory committee. It is too far out of my way to drive up. But I do have a suggestion. Has anybody considered offering the landowners crop damage permits like they offer in other states with high deer densities. Perhaps they would the farmers would think twice if they could get a little meat in return. Basically some of the permits allocated currently under the draw system could be reallocated to the farmers to harvest to protect their crops. Just an idea. I will send a letter as you requested.
    Hello this is Alaska we don't follow what other states do even if it does make sense... Great Idea then you just opened another can of worms...

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    You all need to hope they are not talking to those whackos in California that got the Elk herd removed from the islands becuase they were not native. I will write a letter and I have my wife do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    You all need to hope they are not talking to those whackos in California that got the Elk herd removed from the islands becuase they were not native. I will write a letter and I have my wife do the same.
    No, no, no. You guys are getting carried away. All I am saying is maybe they should issue out crop permits. Why not? If is works in other states, why shouldn't it work in a place like Delta Junction. An area with a lot of agriculture. That it my mind would be a good compromise that would hopefully be palatable to both parties. Hunters still get to participate in the draw system and have a chance at winning a lottery, and the farmers get to a reap a little benefits from providing habitat to a natural resource. That is all I am saying. Let's not get carried away with all this. It's not like I am trying to turn us into California. You guys are being just a little bit paranoid.

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