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Thread: Gonna Do Some Testin'

  1. #1
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    Default Gonna Do Some Testin'

    After all the 'caliber wars' on here and on every single gun forum and for a bit of fun, I have decided to run some testing at our local range.
    Always helps when we can open/close the range ourselves for such events.
    Anyways, no date set, we are gathering the stores (lots of newspaper). We plan to run tests for penetration, wound channel size and bullet break-up, expansion and mass. Not hugely scientific, just apples to apples testing on wet newspaper. Obvioulsy we will also record load data and chrono.
    Initially we will run for pistols and pistol cal rifles at our indoor range and then in spring we will repeat for rifles outside. At present we have every caliber from 22 up to 500SW available with a variety of bbl lengths, that should cover it. All of us reload, but we may run some factory loads as well.
    Any advice welcome as we are in the prep stages, aiming for late Jan 2011 testing.
    Yes I will post details on here.

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    Very Cool Idea, can't wait to see results of all that, have fun out there,

    Hey, Wait.........., did you say, "open /CLOSE the range for your own purposes ??"

    Am I gonna find the door locked more often now ??
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    Very Cool Idea, can't wait to see results of all that, have fun out there,

    Hey, Wait.........., did you say, "open /CLOSE the range for your own purposes ??"

    Am I gonna find the door locked more often now ??
    NO NO NO!!! Just that we will open it on a non-firing day/time!! Still running the plans up the flag-pole, not sure if we open for 'viewing'. That may be like watching paint dry though.

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    This will be interesting. I will be doing some of my own testing as well. I have read accounts that too much velocity with a WFN or similar can actually result in LESS penetration. I've got a 355 .45 WFN cast to 28bhn that I'll be testing penetration from 1150fps on the low end in a 4" 45 Colt up to probably about 1700+ on the high end 454 Casull out of a 20 inch levergun, I'm still working up the load for the levergun. I'd like to see penetration results between 1150 and say 1750. But, I may have to wait longer than Jan. Not gonna do it at 40 below :O

    It would be interesting if you could do the same with some calibers if possible. Specifically trying to find how much velocity is "too much" and how much is "all that's needed". We may have to be willing to set the testosterone aside to get better penetration hhmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbh40 View Post
    NO NO NO!!! Just that we will open it on a non-firing day/time!! Still running the plans up the flag-pole, not sure if we open for 'viewing'. That may be like watching paint dry though.
    Thanks nbh, I was just kidding ya there,
    I'll probably hear you guys blastin' away as I am outside down there a lot in the mornings,
    If you guys do open it up, I may be in there watching the paint dry some,

    Sounds Really Interesting to me, can't wait to see results

    You guys do a good job with that range, can hardly believe your other thread about upgrades coming, WaHoo
    it's already an excellent indoor range, but that is going to be "SOME NICE"

    Next, a High Wind Proof outdoor shelter for Winter Shooters, eh? heh heh again,
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    Next, a High Wind Proof outdoor shelter for Winter Shooters, eh? heh heh again,
    HAHA, we'll leave that one there. Long story before my time, but I understand it is a political thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    This will be interesting. I will be doing some of my own testing as well. I have read accounts that too much velocity with a WFN or similar can actually result in LESS penetration. I've got a 355 .45 WFN cast to 28bhn that I'll be testing penetration from 1150fps on the low end in a 4" 45 Colt up to probably about 1700+ on the high end 454 Casull out of a 20 inch levergun, I'm still working up the load for the levergun. I'd like to see penetration results between 1150 and say 1750. But, I may have to wait longer than Jan. Not gonna do it at 40 below :O

    It would be interesting if you could do the same with some calibers if possible. Specifically trying to find how much velocity is "too much" and how much is "all that's needed". We may have to be willing to set the testosterone aside to get better penetration hhmmmm
    Snyd,
    Good thoughts thanks, I'll make sure the guys have a variety of loads and not just the max.

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    This is interesting. I added the bold red.

    http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%...0Trophies.html

    Soon after hearing the Beiters' successful hunting with the 550 grain Crater, I received the following e-mail from a customer in South Dakota who did extensive tests with the 420 grain Crater Lite in his Marlin 1895 45/70 22 inch barrel gun.

    " I shot a 2400 pound range bull (livestock) at 47 paces or around 50 yards with a load I worked up with your 420 gainers. The load is xx grs. of Alliant #7 compressed using 210 Fed primer. The load averaged 2097 fps. in 10 shot string, and shot under an inch at 100 yards. The rifle is zeroed at 175 yards shooting 4.2 inches high at 100 yards. The bullet entered the left side of the 2400 pound bull crushing the left and right shoulder joints tearing 3 inch hole though the top of the lungs and exited skipping along its happy way though the S.D prairie. The bull in an instant of impact dropped to the ground, made a slight effort to return to its feet and died. I shot the wet newspaper at 100 yards which was stacked 6 feet thick and got complete penetration."

    This customer says the 2400-pound domestic bull is a lot bigger and has more heavy shoulder bone and muscles than that of its wild cousins such as Cape Buffalo and Water Buffalo which has an average weight of 1600 pounds. This customer adds that when the Crater Lite is pushed above 2000 fps, it achieved only 3 feet penetration at 100 yds. However, when he reduces the load velocity to 1600 fps, the Crater Lite punched through the 6 feet thick wet newspaper at 100 yds.

    After experiencing this kind of phenomenal penetration power on the 2400-pound range bull and the 6 feet wet newspaper penetration tests, this customer exclaims, " What can you ask for more?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    But, I may have to wait longer than Jan. Not gonna do it at 40 below :O
    Don't gimme that. Them Fairbanksakans are TUFF.

    At 40 Below, they probably lay around in lawn chairs waiting for their barrels to COOL.

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  10. #10

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    I sure wouldn't bother with WET newspaper. Talk about an unholy mess from one end of the day to the other, not to mention disposal. You're comparing bullets to each other, and if they're all shot in dry paper, it's as valid as shooting them all in wet paper. Uses lots less paper, too!

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    A 2,400# Bovine cross is worth its weight in at least silver and as common as the 12' 1,800# Brownie
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbh40 View Post
    After all the 'caliber wars' on here and on every single gun forum and for a bit of fun, I have decided to run some testing at our local range.
    Always helps when we can open/close the range ourselves for such events.
    Anyways, no date set, we are gathering the stores (lots of newspaper). We plan to run tests for penetration, wound channel size and bullet break-up, expansion and mass. Not hugely scientific, just apples to apples testing on wet newspaper. Obvioulsy we will also record load data and chrono.
    Initially we will run for pistols and pistol cal rifles at our indoor range and then in spring we will repeat for rifles outside. At present we have every caliber from 22 up to 500SW available with a variety of bbl lengths, that should cover it. All of us reload, but we may run some factory loads as well.
    Any advice welcome as we are in the prep stages, aiming for late Jan 2011 testing.
    Yes I will post details on here.
    If the paper is thourghly wet you will need 50+ inches to catch the better penetration wide meplat hard cast bullets. IME

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I sure wouldn't bother with WET newspaper. Talk about an unholy mess from one end of the day to the other, not to mention disposal. You're comparing bullets to each other, and if they're all shot in dry paper, it's as valid as shooting them all in wet paper. Uses lots less paper, too!
    I hafta agree with you again, BB:

    I can't say I've learned a lot by doin it, but it gives me an idea of the penetration of one type round, compared to another.

    I've said before, I use Dry magazines and catalogues, and many would be "shocked and amazed" to find bullets don't go very far into that stuff. Handgun, OR rifle.

    Smitty of the North
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    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  14. #14

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    Bullets do not go very far in dry pac, wet pac will tell you more about how bullet will react in muscle tissue. If you want to make it more realistic then wet a hide and place it in front of the wet pac also place some bone behind 4 or 5 inches of wet pac

  15. #15

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    I've tried about everything I could think of and get my hands on to test bullets for how they'll behave in flesh and bone. And I've recovered a whole lot of bullets from flesh and bone. So far I haven't found a test medium that comes even a little close to predicting how a bullet will perform on an animal. Just my bad luck, I guess.

    But any test medium will be useful for comparing bullets and rounds WITH EACH OTHER. You can learn things like softer, harder, penetrate more/less, expand more/less when using the same test medium to compare bullets. But extrapolating wet pack versus dry to predict "X" inches of penetration in flesh doesn't pack any water for me.

    Shoot lots of wet pack, then spend two days with a shovel and mop cleaning up the inside of the range. Or shoot the dry and finish your cleanup in an hour. You'll get the same info from both.

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    What distance do you set up the medium for handguns?

  17. #17

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    If you're talking to me, I do it outdoors at 20 yards. At the KISA indoor range that might be problematic with the weight and mess of wet. It's a looooong way to the door.

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    Yep, still running this one around indoor vs out. May be better to hold off til spring and do outdoors. Test medium is still being contemplated.

  19. #19

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    Sounds like a plan. If you go wet, outdoors is definitely better. Trust me!

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