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Thread: Ecotec vs Sportjet vs VQ35DE

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default Ecotec vs Sportjet vs VQ35DE

    Just like the other thread but lets add the new wildcat that tjm linked too if anyone can get actual numbers off of it. Perhaps someone w/ a contact at scott can drum up some facts and figures.

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    ok
    ecotec 252hp super charged
    1. yes needs 89 or higher octane [ no big deal with lower octane just add the proper amount per gal of octane boost ] not for everybody lol
    2. cost we pay close to $9500.oo just to see one at the shop door [ but still alot less then the small diesel' s out there ]
    3. we have only used the scott 752 jet pumps with this engine. the pumps work great with no blow out or slip ever
    4. fuel burn rate, we have run with 2/3 guys up and down river and burn around 4.5 gph [ UNLOADED ]
    this will change based on how heavy your foot is and how heavy your load is. i think with a moose guys and gear running up stream
    this will go to 5-6 gph i have seen as good as 3.0 gph just me and 2 small dogs [ my kids ] running unloaded on a lake fishing
    5. wt. not sure as i have never put 1 on the scale but i think the ecotec 252/scott 752 would be around the 500 lb mark wet and ready to run

    now for the new 2.4L ecotec twin cam non turbo/non super charger N/A engine

    1. runs on any pump gas yes any pump gas even the crap 200 miles down the yukon pumped out of a rusty looking drum lol
    2.175 hp
    3.cost we pay about $6500.oo to have 1 shipped to the shop
    4.we use the scott 751 single stage pump with this engine [ but we are working on using a cpl other ]
    5.we are planning on taking this combo up to alaska this year for some real world testing
    we would like to run with some other boat besides our 2 like a sj power boat of any brand
    this way we can do a true comparison load/fuel burn/cruise and so on
    if you have a sj powered boat and would like to run side by side for this type of testing [ not bashing ] you can send me a pm
    we would like to come up before hunting [ caribuo/moose ] and do some test driving and showing then head out to hunt
    and try to get these real world #'s and maybe a cpl moose lol

    252 ecotec/scott 752 hole shot is great with hyd trim and a little throttle its under 10'
    175 ecotec/scott 751 hole shot well not sure our water froze up before i could to this test [ coming soon ]

    now all these #'s are in our boats most are 15'4" 60"wide bottom in .190 thick
    but we also use a 1/2" thick keel with 1/2" uhmw


    any more info just ask and i will try to answer the best i can

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Keep me in mind depending on your timing, I could bring my 17 foot riddle sj and tag along. Its got a pretty beefy bottom and its a 250 hp sj so dont know how close that comes to what you're looking for comparison wise., but I'vegot a pretty clean track record on not bashing anyones boat... I think we all should have at least 8 or 10 of 'em!

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    chriso that sounds like a good 1 to run with and get some of thise #'s we all like to see
    what is the wt. on this set up of yours ?

    for the VQ35 engine it might be hard to get any real #'s from any boats here in the usa
    i did see a cpl of these over in new zealand this spring when i got a chance to do some jet boating over there
    but i did not drive or ride in any
    it's hard to build new boats with alot of these nice small motors you see used over there
    we have uncle sam looking at us [ epa /coast guard ] so alot of what you see is off limits for a new build
    we can use any motor we like if it goes into a proto type/ demo
    but these are hard to sell when somebody is trying to order a new boat

    matt from oz can fill us in on some of these other motor alot better then me [ MATT you out there ]
    this 1 was at konrads shop when i was there
    if matt gets on here he can tell you more about it
    i do think it had a little V6

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbm View Post
    any more info just ask and i will try to answer the best i can
    JBM, Thanks for the oppertunity to ask my question.

    My small boat building company would like to offer a Ecotec powered craft for retail sale. I've spoken with the EPA and several marine engine builders. But, my research has failed to locate any marine Ecotec power heads that have been tested to meet EPA standards.

    Is you Ecotec power head EPA certified? If so, who is the supplier? If not, can you share how you were able to sell your prototypes with non compliant engines? I've a few prototype power units I'm considering selling. Thx in advance for the info, KT

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    hi kevin,
    i think you can check with KEM as they have a 2.4L listed and you can get with a cat. if you need for epa
    i can build and sell here in mt hulls and use any engine that fits the needs of the build and use state issue hin #'s
    not my coast guard issue JBM hin
    also some others have ecotec motors and after jan 1 they will need cats on them
    just like flotation which we all need in a shallow running jet boat
    good thing uncle sam looks after all of us
    not sure i can remember to step out of a sinking boat in 1 foot water lol

    the ecotec 2.2 super charged is non cat and non epa
    these were offered from flo tec
    we no longer use any engines offered by flo tec

    we do also use the 143hp weber and these to DO MEET EPA and after jan1 2011 they to will have cat
    but that is for another thread not this 1

  7. #7

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    I've not located any marine N-A or blown Ecotec that is EPA certified. KEM sent me the 2.4L N-A perf data, but last I checked, it was not EPA certified.

    Have you delivered any EPA certified Ecotec powered crafts? Do you mind sharing who you purchased the unit from?

    So does the Weber meet current EPA standards? Last I checked, they could only be installed in crafts 13' and under. I'd think it be great to include it in the forum topic. It's a great light wt power unit that shows much promise. I spent some time in Fargo working with Sugar Sand on their 50 or so Weber powered crafts. We shared intake design ideas and swapped a few power heads back and forth..

    What's really kewl about the Weber is the ability to drive the pump from the front or rear of the engine. This enabled us to couple the Weber with a modified SJ pump jet. It performed darn well, but alas, Weber didn't commit to bringing the units up to the latest EPA standards, so we shelved the project. I've still three power heads in the shed. Sadly, two of them failed b/c of waste gate troubles

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbm View Post
    if you need for epa
    i can build and sell here in mt hulls and use any engine that fits the needs of the build and use state issue hin #'s
    not my coast guard issue JBM hin
    Oh, I forgot to ask..Can you explain further how the above works? Is the state of MT issuing you a "home built" HIN number, thus it's exempt from federal regulations?

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    [QUOTE=jbm;846061] chriso that sounds like a good 1 to run with and get some of thise #'s we all like to see
    what is the wt. on this set up of yours ? [QUOTE]

    I'm uncertain, I never did weigh it, its 17 foot with a 5 foot bottom out of 3/8" plus a keel sheet of 3/16 t-1 thats 40" wide by 8 foot long (iirc) 45 gallons of fuel, and that 250hp. It's not the lightest sj in town thats for sure, but it's pretty nimble and runs fairly well. I think it topped out at about 55mph with the high scew impellor have in it.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbm;

    5.we are planning on taking this combo up to alaska this year for some real world testing
    we would like to run with some other boat besides our 2 like a sj power boat of any brand
    Bill, I'm planning to do a long range hunt along the yukon this fall. Not sure where but will depend on drawing hunt success. Hunting the later part of the season. Planning on taking two boats with diesels. My buddy is taking his 22' Boulton, and I'll be taking either the current phantom 60/40 with the AT203 or the one we're building now with the Hamilton 212. Two guys per boat is the plan. Let me know if want to plan an adventure.

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    yes that is how it works
    good for building a demo/proto type but not that good for new builds

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    [QUOTE=chriso;846120][QUOTE=jbm;846061] chriso that sounds like a good 1 to run with and get some of thise #'s we all like to see
    what is the wt. on this set up of yours ?

    I'm uncertain, I never did weigh it, its 17 foot with a 5 foot bottom out of 3/8" plus a keel sheet of 3/16 t-1 thats 40" wide by 8 foot long (iirc) 45 gallons of fuel, and that 250hp. It's not the lightest sj in town thats for sure, but it's pretty nimble and runs fairly well. I think it topped out at about 55mph with the high scew impellor have in it.
    thats very good on top speed
    the best/highest we have seen is 51 mph with the 252 ecotec
    but i hear from the new owner that it is far better out of the hole and mid range then his friends sj
    these are his words not me so it will be nice to run with you so we can see how these 2 run together
    if you can still see me in the rear view mirror thats not to bad lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    Bill, I'm planning to do a long range hunt along the yukon this fall. Not sure where but will depend on drawing hunt success. Hunting the later part of the season. Planning on taking two boats with diesels. My buddy is taking his 22' Boulton, and I'll be taking either the current phantom 60/40 with the AT203 or the one we're building now with the Hamilton 212. Two guys per boat is the plan. Let me know if want to plan an adventure.
    not sure on the draw part
    i just buy a moose tag over the counter
    this limits my hunting area
    but i have hunted down from the yukon bridge about a 100 miles i think
    will have to look at a map to see for sure where [ im getting old ]
    im not the big trophy hunter just like to get out and have fun with friends before i get to old to get out
    i do know the older i get the heavier the game is lol

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbm View Post
    not sure on the draw part
    Here's a link to the draw hunts. Check the supplement for the hunting areas in particular. I'm putting in for the Koyukuk draws and a few others. The Koyukuk has some monster moose but even as a resident we have to put in for a draw unless you want to destroy the trophy value of the moose. Non residents must have a permit to hunt the area no matter what. I'm just a meat hunter as well and probably have enough to last me until 2012 season but I'm going just for the fun and to do a long range consumption test. I normally use a more friendly moose hunting rig for packing out my moose but that's a whole different can of worms.

  15. #15

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    JBM-
    Do you have perf data for the Weber/Scott combos you've built? IE: Engine RPM / Pump RPM / Impeller etc..? Did you reduce the blade speed by using a gear or belt underdrive?

    Also, I'm not sure I understand your Ecotec & EPA answer above. Have you installed or have access to Ecotecs that meet federal reqs? I see you've posted Ecotec PH cost. Are the posted prices for units with EPA certification?

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    hi keven
    the ecotec 252 offered by flo tec are NON EPS
    we will have the new ecotec 2.4L for 2011 that DOES MEET THE THE NEW EPA
    as for the weber info i can give these specs in another thread if the members ask for it
    we have worked very hard with konrad from sdm and marcel from weber to put together a good weber/scott combo
    so not all the info will i provide to another boat builder
    i think some of this prototype work you will have to do in house
    i hope you understand we need to protect so of our hard work

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbm View Post
    we will have the new ecotec 2.4L for 2011 that DOES MEET THE THE NEW EPA
    That's good news. Per the thread title, do you have data (Dyno specs, cost, weight, type of fuel) of the new Ecotec you could share with the forum? I've heard from several marine engine suppliers the cats come at a substaintial cost in dollars, wt, compactness, and over all eng performance. That's why the suppliers I spoke with have no plans to offer the Ecotec in the near future. When will JBM/EPA approved units be offered for US sale? Are you the only US builder that it's being offered to?
    i think some of this prototype work you will have to do in house
    i hope you understand we need to protect so of our hard work
    Yes, I understand. I've struggled to find a light wt power unit I can offer my clients besides the Mercury SJ. In recent months, I've been getting calls asking if I offer the Ecotec as a option. I inform them I'd like to, but "that pesky ole Uncle Sam" won't allow me to offer a craft that is powered by a non EPA compliant engine.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Turner View Post
    That's good news. Per the thread title, do you have data (Dyno specs, cost, weight, type of fuel) of the new Ecotec you could share with the forum? I've heard from several marine engine suppliers the cats come at a substaintial cost in dollars, wt, compactness, and over all eng performance. That's why the suppliers I spoke with have no plans to offer the Ecotec in the near future. When will JBM/EPA approved units be offered for US sale? Are you the only US builder that it's being offered to?Yes, I understand. I've struggled to find a light wt power unit I can offer my clients besides the Mercury SJ. In recent months, I've been getting calls asking if I offer the Ecotec as a option. I inform them I'd like to, but "that pesky ole Uncle Sam" won't allow me to offer a craft that is powered by a non EPA compliant engine.
    Kevin. What's the name of your boat company and location?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Turner View Post
    That's good news. Per the thread title, do you have data (Dyno specs, cost, weight, type of fuel) of the new Ecotec you could share with the forum? I've heard from several marine engine suppliers the cats come at a substaintial cost in dollars, wt, compactness, and over all eng performance. That's why the suppliers I spoke with have no plans to offer the Ecotec in the near future. When will JBM/EPA approved units be offered for US sale? Are you the only US builder that it's being offered to?Yes, I understand. I've struggled to find a light wt power unit I can offer my clients besides the Mercury SJ. In recent months, I've been getting calls asking if I offer the Ecotec as a option. I inform them I'd like to, but "that pesky ole Uncle Sam" won't allow me to offer a craft that is powered by a non EPA compliant engine.
    the new 2.4L is rated 175 hp @5400 rpm
    cost is looking like under $6500 to my door
    weight ? i will check this with my scale after i see 1 in my shop
    fuel is listed as reg gas NO HIGH OCTANE NEEDED

    they tell me that the cat will only add $450-500 per unit [ not to bad ]
    i have seen 1 of the new cats and they look like about 15 lbs [ again not to bad ]
    i have no idea how many builders are offered these units
    we have 2 on order now and 3 more coming up
    the 3 will be heading to russia so there will be no epa to worry about

    i still do not see why you can not build a few demos that do not meet the 2011 epa

    as for the weber they tell me they have a pass on the mpe 750 i am using now and that the new mpe 850 will have a cat and will meet the 2011 epa

    if you would like any more info on the weber it may be best to contact them yourself that way you are not hearing 2nd hand info from me

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halibutgrove View Post
    Kevin. What's the name of your boat company and location?
    PM sent :-)

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