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Thread: Snares paid off, but need help...

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    Default Snares paid off, but need help...

    Well i got my first hare of the year in a snare out back. He was caught around the hind quarters and couldn't break free. I had a little fun with him since he was bleating so loudly. I took him out into a more open spot and let him cry for a while to see if he would cal in any predators, but once the temps started to drop, I said forget it and dispatched him.

    Now for the help - I have never cleaned a hare before and am not sure where to get the meat or how to flesh the hide well. I got a little meat off the thighs and backstraps, but other than that, I don't see much. He was kinda small, so maybe he just didn't have much meat, but I will take any tips on cleaning hare in the future.

    As for the pelt, it pulled off nicely, but it is so thin that it is making fleshing it difficult. There really isn'y any "flesh" on it, just a thin skin-like membrane attached with some veins and blood in it. Any tips on how to get it separated without puncturing the skin? Thanks.
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    I realize that you are pretty inexperienced but I don't think what you did is legal. I'd be surprised if you could use a rabbit in a snare to call in game. Besides, "having a little fun with him" is pretty unsportsman like. Set the snares right, catch rabbits around the neck, and do quick kills.
    Last edited by foamsfollower; 11-29-2010 at 21:09. Reason: spelling

  3. #3

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    He was caught by the waist and not harmed. He was not in any pain at all, just couldn't run away. I would have killed him quickly if he were hurt in any way.

    As for "sportsmanlike" I thought it was pretty ingenius, myself. People pay big money to replicate that sound with an electronic call. My rabbit, my snare, my land...I don't see any legal issues. I am sure the rabbit was happy to have the extra 15-20 minutes of life. :-)

    And I still need the answer to my questions that were the reason for starting this thread.

  4. #4
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foamsfollower View Post
    I realize that you are pretty inexperienced but I don't think what you did is legal. I'd be surprised if you could use a rabbit in a snare to call in game. Besides, "having a little fun with him" is pretty unsportsman like. Set the snares right, catch rabbits around the neck, and do quick kills.
    was my first thought also... regardless of type of catch..
    I had a little fun with him since he was bleating so loudly. I took him out into a more open spot and let him cry for a while
    you moved a wounded animal and used it for bait. rather then dispatch it quickly..

    sounds like something my step son would do. and i have had to reteach his video game mentality since he and i met...

    taking the life of an animal or any creature is NOT a game... and should not be treated as so... IF your going to take a life. any life.. it should be done quickly and humanely... why do you think it was bleating? Fear, pain, fear.. i can only imagine how you hung it to keep it bleating until you got cold...

    sorry AK explorer.. this is the saddest post i have ever read.

    killing is not a sport regardless of the name sportsman have for it......
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  5. #5

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    Dude, the thing was not hurt. It was running when I found it, just couldn't get the snare off of the tree it was attached to. If I had released it, I am sure it would have lived a long, happy life. I am not playing a "game" with it - I was hoping to bring in a lynx or coyote, whose tracks are all over the place as well. It was not bleating until I got close to it, so it was primarily out of fear of me, not injury. I did not "hang" it at all, I simply hooked the line to a tree more in the open so it had more room to hop around. Geesh.

    Anyway, I guess I will go on getting minimal meat and wasting the pelts since you don't seem to want to help me with the questions I posed and just want to criticize me for moving the rabbit to call in a predator.

    Not to mention, while you guys are on your high horse, how is what I did any worse, or even AS BAD as those who trap and kill small game for bait? I know a guy who traps muskrat, keeps the hide, and uses the rat for bait for larger animals. So how is that okay, but taking a healthy rabbit and not letting it free or killing it for 15-20 minutes is bad? Give me a break. I use every bit of the animal - hide, meat, and even the bone if I can, and like I said, I would not have done it if the rabbit were injured at all, but he wasn't. When the time came to kill him, I was easy with him and did it quickly. Heck, if I hadn't checked the snares today, he would be out there right now freezing and trying to stay alive. I think he got off pretty good.

    But, as much as I don't understand the logic and disagree, I will take this as a lesson and not do it again.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Explorer View Post
    Dude, the thing was not hurt. It was running when I found it, just couldn't get the snare off of the tree it was attached to. If I had released it, I am sure it would have lived a long, happy life. I am not playing a "game" with it - I was hoping to bring in a lynx or coyote, whose tracks are all over the place as well. It was not bleating until I got close to it, so it was primarily out of fear of me, not injury. I did not "hang" it at all, I simply hooked the line to a tree more in the open so it had more room to hop around. Geesh.

    Anyway, I guess I will go on getting minimal meat and wasting the pelts since you don't seem to want to help me with the questions I posed and just want to criticize me for moving the rabbit to call in a predator.
    actually i am more than willing to help. but you have to understand your stated actions Don't feel right to many of us.. in short what you did was Ethically WRONG... i spend a lot of time teaching kids and new hunters that stuff...

    Fortunately you did kill it and did harvest it..

    so now..

    I have never "FLESHED" a hare hide. stretch them dry them and run the flesh side over the edge of a split log (firewood big piece) to remove the dry gore that may be left on it...

    mine.. i use Palmolive and rub it in.. work it in and soap tan them and then cut them into mukluk insoles.

    the meat? i cut off the head and feets and stew the entire critter.. not much on any one piece.. but all added together there is a meal, cut into pieces floured and fried... stewed in a slow cooker, or soup.

    the bones all pick out later, if you don't lick your fingers, you didn't make it good enough.

    and please.. next time you make something suffer longer then it needs.. Keep it to your self. Please..

    congrats on your fist snare, i have ate many a many hare while living out on my homestead, snaring up to 30 a day, i remember my first still..
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  7. #7

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    Thanks for the advice. I guess I didn't look at it as "suffering" since it wasn't hurt, but I will just kill them quickly from now on and save up for a FoxPro.

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    I gotta say I had the same reaction as the others who have posted, but since you genuinely seem interested in utilizing the animal I'll throw out my advice on usage:

    I like to start by removing teh feet at the ankles and cutting off the head, then slit the rear legs to the pelvis, being very carefull not to puncture the stomach cavity. I find if I can avoid puncturing the stomach cavity AT ALL that the meat tastes better than chicken! Once the legs are both split to the pelvis you should have a "tube" that you can pull down over from butt to head, just pull the tail off before you start peeling toward the head. Once you have the animal skinned you can cut off the legs at the joints and that is MOST of your meat, then I cut out the "back strap" and finally i'll take the "belly meat" of. Again do all that without puncturing the stomach cavity, up until taking the belly meat, but don't puncture the intestines when you do that, you'll see its pretty easy once you try it. That belly meat you can save up from about 10 hares and make jerky out of it on the stove, got that idea from a thread on here so credit goes to that poster, although I don't recall who it was.

    I tan the hides using a method/reciepe found on Mother Earth News, just do a google search for "tanning rabbit hides" or something along that line and you'll find it. The first batch came out great, fur is staying on and skin is well preserved, the do dry stiff and I have yet to "work" any of them soft so maybe i'm ahead of myself for being happy with my product? One step I would change from those directions, it appears to me that "fleshing" a rabbit is a bit different than one might think. I believe all you can do is pull off any loose membrane, veins and fat. Trying to do anything more than that ruined two of mine, well put holes in them anyhow, i'm going to try and stich them back up because I want to make a "blanket" with a backing anyhow so you won't see it.

    Good luck and please do respect ALL the creatures.

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the reply. I have the Mother Earth News article saved and I am going to do that when I get a few more pelts. I don't want to waste that much product on one pelt.

    As for the other, I do respect them and I will not be doing that again. I didn't see that it was disrespectful or unethical, but since you guys know better, I will take your word for it. I just thought of it like using a smaller fish for bait for larger fish, but apparently that is only permissible for fish! Thanks again.

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    Even fish aren't allowed to be used live, albeit for different reasons

    One other note I just thought of, I used the "Alum" recipe, which I couldn't find in bulk around here, but search on Amazon and you'll find it, I think I paid about 16 bucks for 5 pounds, you'll do through it if you do many. I didn't look all that hard locally...

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    These comments are not specifically directed at you but hopefully may also be of interest to others reading this thread. I don't think anyone is trying to "dump" on you but there are so many assumptions and statements that you have made and conclusions that you have reached that I think it would be a good idea to spend some time talking with Vince or someone else who is familiar with the regulations, laws, and ethics of hunting, trapping, and fishing in Alaska. I appreciate your willingness to learn, but the learning curve can be awful steep without a good teacher.

    As an example, you may own the land and the snares, but the game on it is not yours to do with as you like. State laws apply to both private and public land.



    Let me throw out a few questions that you might want to consider: is live bait (minnows) permitted for sport fishing in Alaska, is is legal to use a live animal to call in another, is it legal to use a whole salmon for trap bait, can a moose carcass that you find in the woods be moved to a better spot to make a trap set. And finally, and most importantly, how do you think others (both consumptive and non-consumptive users) react to any particular method of trapping or hunting?

    As for the guy who traps muskrats for the pelts and uses the carcass for bait, that is completely legal. ( But many people in my area consider muskrat a delicacy.) Taking game animals solely for bait or using the carcasses of birds (for example,gray jays) that were inadvertently caught as bait is not legal.

    Let me get on my "high horse" for a minute. I am 68 years old and have hunted and trapped for much of my life. I was fortunate to have good teachers. With that said, I think the future of hunting and trapping depends very strongly on how the practices are perceived by the larger public. I know lots of people who do not hunt or trap but do not object if it is done as humanely as possible and the resource is both respected and utilized as fully as possible. It is up to us to educate each other, to follow best possible practices and fair chase, and to present what we do well to the larger public. There are very few trappers and it doesn't take much of a screw up to alienate a lot people unneccesarily.

    Let me give an example of what I consider bad practice as well as disrespect for the animal: some idiot who legally trapped a wolf (in B.C. I think) recently posted on Youtube a clip of the trapped wolf whimpering in the trap. What better advertisement is there to illustrate cruel and inhumane treatment than posting a Youtube clip of a trapped animal whimpering in a trap?

    Finally, you may be relatively inexperienced now but having caught one rabbit and learned how to use it means that you can teach someone else. Hopefully you will become one of the teachers.

  12. #12

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    Thank you, foams - and in answer to your questions: 1. I don't think so 2. no 3. no (unless it was commercially bought) 4. no. But my only thing is that just because the regulations prohibit it doesn't make it unethical. There are plenty of places where live bait is perfectly acceptable, so does that make those states unethical even though it is allowed? Of course not. It is just a state rule. Just because the state says it, doesn't mean it is wrong or right. I see absolutely nothing wrong with: A. using live bait for fishing, B) using live bait to call in game, C) using whatever part of a fish you want to catch other animals, D) moving a dead carcass to a better spot, since the animal is already dead

    100 years ago this crap wasn't regulated like this. Anyone finding a dead animal could do whatever the heck he wanted to with it. Now I am not saying we should all just buck the system - quite the contrary, in fact - we should follow the law, BUT that doesn't mean we agree that the law of the land is inherently ethical. For example, I don't think seatbelt laws are constitutional, but I don't raise a stink, I just wear my seatbelt; however, if I choose NOT to wear it, I don't think I am being unethical, just illegal, and frankly, I don't care about being illegal in every situation.

    Now, putting a video up of a suffering animal, yeah, it is unethical and stupid. I wish the wolf had broken free and bit the guy on that video...and it is just more ammunition for the greenies to use against hunting and trapping. All I am saying is that somebody, somewhere said trapping muskrat and killing them for bait is allowed, but using a perfectly healthy, live rabbit as a lure is not. Who made their opinion right, and furthermore, who says one is more ethical than the other? Heck, in my opinion, if I lured in a fox, shot him, and then set the rabbit free, I would be more ethical than the guy slaughtering muskrat just so he can go kill something else. Again, it isn't legal, but I would debate the ethics.

    In any case, I am aware now that it was illegal to do that and will not be doing it again. I will, however, enjoy trapping and hunting for years to come and I appreciate all of the input you guys have given.

    Limon - I got a 50# bag of alum from Alaska Mill and Feed in Anchorage for $50, but they don't always have the big bags. They have 1 and 4# bags also for $4 and $12 respectively. I haven't been able to locate any in the valley.


    I hope I didn't come across defensive, because I am not at all. I respect you guys and your opinions as well as appreciate the legal information. I simply wanted to point out that just because some bureaucrat says something is illegal doesn't make it "wrong" as a rule of life.

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    I also think that what you did was wrong (having a little fun with it was not right). The snare does hurt, and you can't tell me that it doesn't. Put one around your stomach and see if it hurts when you fight it. I get half of my animals in snares every trapping season and I really pay attention on placement so I dont get any by the hips. Im done now. Here is some advice for snaring. Your snare may have been to low, that is why you hip caught it; Also your loop may have been to big. Also you can use a spoon to flesh rabbits. I use a spoon for fox, rabbits, and some times lynx. One of them big serving spoons works great. Just make sure the wife is not around. she wont be to impressed with your fleshing tool, and then you will have to listen to that all night.

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    Ha - got it - big spoon without the wife around. Thanks! And hurt or not, it will be the last time, never fear.

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    "frankly, I don't care about being illegal in every situation". I give up.

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    Just a question here but you said that the rabbit wasn't hurt right? How did it get that cut around it's hips?
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKHunterNP View Post
    Just a question here but you said that the rabbit wasn't hurt right? How did it get that cut around it's hips?
    While I generally appreciate the forum mentality where we all have to get out licks in, the guy did what he did, apologized for it and is just looking to learn. Rather than continuing to beat him up and grill him on this event can we just concentrate on helping him harvest the meat effectively and process the hide?

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    I wasn't trying to take a jab at him, I apologize if it came out that way. I ask that question because I caught a rabbit in one of my snares this weekend also and I didn't get him around his neck but mine wasn't cut by the snare. I didn't know if that was done by the snare or by him after the fact.

    AK Explorer, if you are not targeting rabbit but get some snared check your snare height. I caught three rabbits this weekend that I was not targeting because we had a fresh snow and I didn't get out in time to adjust my snares. If you are targeting Lynx the rule of thumb, as I've been told and have been using, is 10 in loop and 10 in off the ground. If you get a fresh snow that height will need to be adjusted again. If you are targeting hares about 4-5 in off the ground and a 6 in loop should work for you. That should help you get them around the neck for a quick kill.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    While I generally appreciate the forum mentality where we all have to get out licks in, the guy did what he did, apologized for it and is just looking to learn. Rather than continuing to beat him up and grill him on this event can we just concentrate on helping him harvest the meat effectively and process the hide?
    LuJon,
    Thanks for this. No offense to the guys posting in response. I understand sportsmanship and thought the OP was off base with the original post. However, we all make mistakes, and me being a newbie to a lot of this stuff I really appreciate the "forgive and move on" mentality. I've learned a lot from the response here. Especially about handling the hides. Thanks guys.

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    Whew! This thread could have really gone bad, but as it turned out there were some very good posts to read. Foamsfollower, you're welcome in my hunting camp anytime. And AK Explorer apologized for his actions and said he'll never do it again! Now how often does someone step up like that? I think we all learned something here.

    Be safe out there. Enjoy Alaska and all it has to offer. Get kids involved.

    Jim

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